If only we elected McCain

Does any rational person think that a President McCain or even Clinton would have announced a draw down of our troops in Afghanistan?
____________

Short answer: no.

with addendum: but don't expect him to live up to his word...

Hey... still waitin' for that announcement about a total withdrawal of forces from Iraq... which will never occur during any of our lifetimes

"SLEEP TIGHT, BATSHIT."
-Bill Maher to 9/11 nut
www.sigzone.blogspot.com

You crack me up Seder.

Didn't McCain and Clinton trade shots in Somesuchfuckinstan?

America Without a Middle Class
new
Submitted by toniD on Thu, 12/03/2009 - 9:19am.
America Without a Middle Class
Elizabeth Warren
Chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel

Can you imagine an America without a strong middle class? If you can, would it still be America as we know it?

Today, one in five Americans is unemployed, underemployed or just plain out of work. One in nine families can't make the minimum payment on their credit cards. One in eight mortgages is in default or foreclosure. One in eight Americans is on food stamps. More than 120,000 families are filing for bankruptcy every month. The economic crisis has wiped more than $5 trillion from pensions and savings, has left family balance sheets upside down, and threatens to put ten million homeowners out on the street.

Families have survived the ups and downs of economic booms and busts for a long time, but the fall-behind during the busts has gotten worse while the surge-ahead during the booms has stalled out. In the boom of the 1960s, for example, median family income jumped by 33% (adjusted for inflation). But the boom of the 2000s resulted in an almost-imperceptible 1.6% increase for the typical family. While Wall Street executives and others who owned lots of stock celebrated how good the recovery was for them, middle class families were left empty-handed.

The crisis facing the middle class started more than a generation ago. Even as productivity rose, the wages of the average fully-employed male have been flat since the 1970s.

But core expenses kept going up. By the early 2000s, families were spending twice as much (adjusted for inflation) on mortgages than they did a generation ago -- for a house that was, on average, only ten percent bigger and 25 years older. They also had to pay twice as much to hang on to their health insurance.

To cope, millions of families put a second parent into the workforce. But higher housing and medical costs combined with new expenses for child care, the costs of a second car to get to work and higher taxes combined to squeeze families even harder. Even with two incomes, they tightened their belts. Families today spend less than they did a generation ago on food, clothing, furniture, appliances, and other flexible purchases -- but it hasn't been enough to save them. Today's families have spent all their income, have spent all their savings, and have gone into debt to pay for college, to cover serious medical problems, and just to stay afloat a little while longer. more...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-warren/america-without-a-middle_...

=================================

Especially in cities that have areas of ideal conditions (close in, near parks, public land, near scenic waterfront) in affordable middle/professional class neighborhoods of modest single family homes: the Elite Obscenely Wealthy are going in to these neighborhoods and buying up multiple adjacent lots, tearing down the lovely homes and bungalows and creating a single lot with a McMansion that screams "Look at me, I'm RICH!". I have no idea if these are people who would be considered middle class. I doubt it.

Worker Occupations And The Future Of Radical Labor
An Interview With Noam Chomsky

November 20, 2009 By Noam Chomsky
and Diane Krauthamer

This interview was conducted on Oct. 9, 2009, at Professor Noam Chomsky's office at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Mass.

DK: I would like to start this interview with a discussion of the economic crisis and how workers can deal with the issues which we face. In your recent piece titled "Crisis and Hope: Theirs and Ours," which was published in the Boston Review, you state that the "the financial crisis will presumably be patched up somehow, while leaving the institutions that created it pretty much in place." Following on that, there has been a recent upsurge of militant industrial action in workplaces, primarily throughout Europe, and also in North America. As you know, the Republic Windows and Doors Factory in Chicago was the first factory occupation in the U.S. since the 1930s.

NC: No, not quite, because the 1979 strike against U.S. Steel in Youngstown, Ohio was an occupation—and actually, that's a model that really should be pursued now. They went on from striking to trying to have the workforce and the communities take over the abandoned factories that U.S. Steel was dismantling. The legal effort that followed was led by the radical labor lawyer Staughton Lynd. They didn't win in the courts, but they could have won, and they would have had enough support. It could have meant a lot.

DK: That leads me to my question about how workers are responding to mass layoffs. I feel what they are aiming for are parochial gains without thinking more long-term of how they can move towards workers' self-management.

NC: That's what the IWW should be doing: providing that spark. You're right, it's reactive. But the same was true of the sit-down strikes in the 1930s. I mean the reason the sit-down strikes struck such fear in the hearts of management was that they knew that a sit-down strike was just one step short of taking over the factory...
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/23178

Now I really want him gone!!!! You'll get angry reading this!

Bernanke Channels Willie Sutton In Assault On Social Security: 'That's Where The Money Is'

Ben Bernanke has overseen the greatest expansion of the Federal Reserve's balance sheet in its history, pouring trillions of dollars into Wall Street firms at roughly zero interest rates.

His generosity, however, has a limit.

In testimony before the Senate Banking Committee today, where he's seeking re-appointment as the Fed's chairman, Bernanke called for cutbacks in Medicare and Social Security even as unemployment rises and the middle class is endangered.

Citing legendary bank robber Willie Sutton, Bernanke said of the retirement and health care funds that are the legacy of the New Deal: "That's where the money is."

Sen. Bob Bennett (R-Utah) sympathized with Bernanke, saying that, because of entitlement spending, "you're going to be looking at a situation where the Congress will be unable to provide any kind of fiscal discipline because of the mandatory spending. That puts an enormous burden on your plate."

"Well, Senator, I was about to address entitlements," Bernanke replied. "I think you can't tackle the problem in the medium term without doing something about getting entitlements under control and reducing the costs, particularly of health care."

Bernanke reminded Congress that it has the power to repeal Social Security and Medicare.

"It's only mandatory until Congress says it's not mandatory. And we have no option but to address those costs at some point or else we will have an unsustainable situation," said Bernanke.

But there are several other obvious options that could make the situation sustainable -- including a transaction tax on Wall Street speculation or a slight tax hike on the wealthiest Americans.

Bernanke talks as if increasing taxes on the wealthy simply isn't an option.

Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.) followed Bennett and pointed out that "there's only really two ways you can deflect this deficit, and that's either by cutting expenditures or raising income taxes or other forms of taxes."

Reed asked him if he could think of other ways, but Bernanke returned to entitlement money as the way to balance the budget.

"Willie Sutton robbed banks because that's where the money is, as he put it," Bernanke said. "The money in this case is in entitlements."

There's also money at the very top of the income ladder. Reed asked if Congress would be wise to tax some of it. Full of suggestions when it came to cutting entitlements, Bernanke was suddenly overtaken by a bout of policy modesty.

"Would you take taxes off the table?" Reed asked.

"Those decisions are up to Congress," Bernanke said.

"Well, your predecessor signaled very strongly that the tax cuts in 2000 were appropriate," Reed reminded him.

"I have not done that. I've done my best to leave that authority where it belongs, with the Congress," Bernanke said, just moments after telling Congress to cut entitlement spending.

Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont who has placed a hold on Bernanke's nomination, was apoplectic when HuffPost told him Bernanke was pushing for cuts in entitlement spending. "Bernanke wants to cut entitlement spending? Well, that confirms everything I'm saying," Sanders fumed.

"The CEOs and top people on Wall Street make huge bonuses, and what? We're going to cut back on Social Security and Medicare? That's what we're going to do?"

Bernanke worked to assure the committee he had nothing against old people. "I'm not in any way advocating unfair treatment of the elderly, who have worked all their lives and certainly deserve our support and help, but if there are ways to restructure or strengthen these programs that reduce costs, I think that's extraordinarily important for us to try to achieve," he said.

Bernanke allies in the Senate are working to see he gets his way. Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) has been pushing hard for the creation of an independent commission that could cut entitlement spending. He has met recently, he said Thursday, with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, reiterating his threat to block Senate legislation if the commission isn't created.

"We're on a course that's just unsustainable," Conrad said, but put emphasis on Medicare rather than Social Security.

While the debate about entitlement spending is often masked with high-minded talk about fiscally-responsible policy solutions, it is little more than a struggle between competing classes for scarce resources.

Sanders said he sees it for what it is. "That's the solution? To cut back on the middle class and the elderly? That only adds fuel to the fire," he said. "Look, let's be clear. The middle class in America today is collapsing. Within the confines of the Beltway, we don't talk about that too much. But that is the reality. It's not just unemployment or underemployment. People are working longer hours for lower wages. People are unable to send their kids to college. People are losing their homes. People's jobs are going to China. That is the reality."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/03/bernanke-channels-willie_n_3789...

We seem to be veering very close to a one party gov't.
Are you angry yet? It's time!

toniD's Ya Think?

we TRULY have in presidents/leaders?

NO!

Should we torture the mop

for being so filthy?

Napalm the toilet brush

in the hopes it bleaches clean?

Sen. Jim DeMint announces through Twitter that he will become the third Senator to place a hold on Bernanke’s confirmation:

I will oppose Bernanke and hold his nomination until we get a vote to audit the Fed.

DeMint joins Jim Bunning and Bernie Sanders. The bedfellows, they are strange.

The rest of the article is about Bernanke wanting to get rid of SS and Medicare

http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/12/03/bernanke-yes-to-social-security-c...

toniD's Ya Think?

Are there still rational people out there?

That's the problem! There are fewer than we think.

The majority are clueless

toniD's Ya Think?

we need a new mop.

That one's crappy.

Grills him good!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/01/shatner-grills-limbaugh-a_n_375...

"The middle class in America today is collapsing"

Thanks Nando for the reminder..... ugg ∆

Feingolds (WI) stance on Burn-knack-ee??

Senate Democrats defeat GOP effort to cripple health care overhaul; Medicare cuts still in

WASHINGTON (AP) — Unflinching on a critical first test, Senate Democrats closed ranks Thursday behind $460 billion in politically risky Medicare cuts at the heart of health care legislation, thwarting a Republican attempt to doom President Barack Obama's sweeping overhaul.

The bid by the bill's critics to reverse cuts to the popular Medicare program failed on a vote of 58-42, drawing the support of two Democratic defectors. Approval would have stripped out money needed to pay for expanding coverage to tens of millions of uninsured Americans.

The broader legislation aims to extend health coverage to 31 million who now lack it, while barring insurance industry practices such as denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions. Though the overhaul is estimated to cost about $1 trillion over a decade, the Congressional Budget Office has said it would cut federal deficits by $130 billion over that period, and probably reduce them further in the 10 years beyond that.

"Our bill does nothing to reduce guaranteed Medicare benefits," said Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., as several fellow Democrats accused Republican critics of making false claims of potential harm during three days of debate.

The AARP supported the 10-year package of cuts in projected spending, giving Democrats political cover for their decision to pare back subsidies to private Medicare plans as well as payments to hospitals, hospices, home health agencies and other providers.

Republicans disagreed vigorously. "Medicare is already in trouble. The program needs to be fixed, not raided to create another new government program," said the party's leader, Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

The Medicare vote came not long after the Senate backed a guarantee for all insured women age 40 and older to receive mammograms with no out-of-pocket costs. The breast cancer screening test would be included in an array of preventive measures that insurance plans would be required to cover. The proposal cleared on a near party-line vote of 61-39, one more than the 60 needed for passage. It essentially wiped out a federal advisory committee recommendation to defer routine mammograms until women reach the age of 50.

The day's votes were the first since the Senate's health care debate began on Monday, and demonstrated the ability of Democrats to move ahead in the face of implacable Republican opposition. more...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/sns-ap-us-health-care-overhaul,0,71...

toniD's Ya Think?

Cartoon shows U.S. forces going from Iraq, through a revolving door, and into Afghanistan.

Call it 'insurance fraud against Medicare" or an equivalent description everytime or they'll get away with saying "Medicare is broken"! Use the correct language or the sociopaths will win this battle and destroy it.

Some pardon.

If they really are supposed to be released from suffering, send them to a sanctuary.

But I bet the White House PR staff yells "NO WAY! This is one of our few 'feel good' moments all year!"

Here's a sanctuary willing to give them a home--

http://farmsanctuary.typepad.com/making_hay/2009/11/pardoned-turkey-poll...

legislators clocking investigative hearing time than KKKarl Rove ever did!

The Purposely Broken System of Priorities is working as planned?

domestic terrorist organization by the USDA....When will your local pet shelter be next??? Egad.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/12/peta-classified-terrorist-threat...

[excerpt]

And right when PETA was about to be able to call it quits, too. The USDA has just released a new security profile form (pdf), which it distributes to animal experimentation facilities. The form reveals that PETA has been classified as a terrorist threat by the US government--potentially opening up its members to prosecution as terrorists. According to Green is the New Red, an eco-activist rights website, the document was given to all facilities that conduct experiments on animals. They were asked to disclose whether they were the target of attacks or harassment from a list of terrorist groups--one of which, evidently, is PETA.

Here's an excerpt from the form:

B. Terrorist Threat. What terrorist activities have occurred in or around your building/facility in the past 5 years (documented cases)? Please check all that apply.

[ ] Attack from international terrorists
[ ] Attack from domestic special interest terrorists
-[ ] Earth Liberation Front (ELF)
-[ ] Animal Liberation Front (ALF)
-[ ] People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA)
-[ ] Animal Defense League (ADL)
-[ ] Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC)
-[ ] Formal hate group(s) (please specify):
-[ ] Other (please specify): ____________________
[ ] Cyber Attack from a known or unknown source.

As you can see, PETA has apparently been classified as "domestic special interest terrorists", along with the far more radical likes of the Animal Liberation Front.

[end excerpt]

1. Is it only disturbing to me that they are sitting on chairs that resemble "the love toilet?"

2. Re "Jaba"

a} Shatner is fat in the clip. Rush is not (oxy). Food addiction. Drug addiction. Being a (raging Nazi) asshole. Three different things (that sometimes overlap, but not always.) Correlation vs causation--look into it sometime.

b} BWTF...See last thread in re head/wall.

Tell-all book on Christian Coalition...

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/book-ralph-reed-sex-scandal/

[excerpt]

If excerpts from Lisa Baron's upcoming book are anything to go on, it's sure to be a scandalous read.

My Burning Bush, Baron's memoir of her days as the spokeswoman for Ralph Reed -- the former Christian Coalition leader and the man Time called "The Right Hand of God" -- is being shopped around the New York publishing houses. And it promises to embarrass more than one figure in America's conservative movement.

[end excerpt]

Time for what?

Krugman's big pal--"Poor Ben." As opposed to his other respected colleague--Bob Rubin.

(Not really sure what the point was there. Just felt compelled to mention.)

The embodiment of COLD-BLOODEDNESS.

Via Malloy's site or below--

http://www.mikemalloy.com/

http://gizmodo.com/5342713/this-is-how-the-cia-kills-terrorists-using-pr...

==============

This destructive technology wasn't born overnight.

If we had a legitimate 9/11 investigation, would we learn that was how the Twin Towers got it, too?

They won't appear.

They are declining to appear, just like Rove.

...he would have sent several surges of troops to Iraq and Iran by now and wouldn't have given it a second thought.

I am not happy about President Obama's decision but he did express his intention for Afghanistan during the campaign. So I am not surprised by it; and I take some consolation that he sought the counsel of numerous persons diversely and adversely affected.

Birdfeeder Found to Cause Evolution in New Species
By Brian Merchant, Travel & Nature

Up until now, most people have likely regarded bird-feeders as merely a pleasant addition to their gardens. But scientists have recently discovered that bird-feeders in the UK are actually having a serious long term impact on the birds that eat from them--so large an impact that researchers believe the feeders have brought about the first evolutionary step in a brand new species.

According to the BBC, scientists have found that bird-feeders have had a major impact on European birds called blackcaps. The blackcaps' natural instinct has historically been to migrate to Spain to spend their winters, where they feed on fruits and berries. But the rise of bird-feeders in the UK have changed that. Scientists discovered that blackcaps "follow a different "evolutionary path" if they spend the winter eating food put out for them in UK gardens."

A Species of Bird that Eats Only From Bird-feeders?

Those blackcaps that have opted instead to head north to the UK begun to form a brand new species of bird, all thanks to the British putting bird-feeders in their yards. The researchers say that the team found that blackcaps that migrated to the UK for the winter were in the very earliest stages of forming a new species. [Lead researcher Dr. Shaefer] explained that some blackcaps would always have migrated "a little further north" than others and eventually ended up in Britain in the winter. But those birds would have had nothing to eat," he said. It was when garden bird feeders became more popular in the UK, that an evolutionary division began to emerge.

Since the British were providing food for the birds, that gave them a huge advantage in surviving the winter. Over time, the group of birds that didn't migrate south began to mate only with other moochers--creating the first step in the formation of their own species. The researchers had a hunch that this was precisely what was going on, that there would soon be a brand new species of blackcaps. But they needed proof. Que up the lab work:

The team were able to use a chemical "signature" from the birds' claws to identify where they spent the winter, and what food they ate. "Then we took blood samples and analysed those to assess whether... we had two distinct populations. And that's exactly what we found," said Dr Schaefer.

The new blackcaps sport different plumage, beaks, and wings. They have rounder wings thanks to the shorter trip they now make, and longer narrower beaks--the better to eat from bird feeders, of course. These evolutionary changes took place in a mere 50 years.

The Impact of a Bird Feeder-Created Bird
So what's the end impact of all of this--has man intruded on nature and disrupted yet another fragile ecosystem by sticking bird feeders all over the place for his own amusement? Or created a Frankenstein bird never meant for life in this world?

Thankfully, no--the scientists actually seem to think that the Brits have done the birds a favor: Dr. Schaeffer says, "[The birds have] found a better overwintering area that is closer to the breeding ground, where they can obtain food easily. And I also think its positive news for us, because it means not all the changes we produce are necessarily bad, and that some species have the potential to adapt quickly to the changes." Well, that's good to know--we humans are capable of doing a little good on this planet after all.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/12/birdfeeders-found-to-cause-evolu...

...equivalent to "fast food" restaurants and neither are good for the intended species nor the environment.

Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans
Submitted by toniD on Thu, 12/03/2009 - 1:28pm.
Poll: Isolationism soars among Americans
Poll finds sharp growth in isolationist sentiment among Americans

BARRY SCHWEID
AP News

Dec 03, 2009 09:00 EST

Americans are turning away from the world, showing a tendency toward isolationism in foreign affairs that has risen to the highest level in four decades, a poll out Thursday found.

Almost half, 49 percent, told the polling organization that the United States should "mind its own business" internationally and let other countries get along the best they can on their own, the Pew Research Center survey found. That's up from 30 percent who said that in December 2002.

Results of the survey appear to conflict with President Barack Obama's activist foreign policy, including a newly announced buildup of 30,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan to fight Taliban and al-Qaida extremists.

"Isolationist Sentiment Surges to Four-Decade High," the nonpartisan research center headlined its report on the poll about America's role in the world.

Only 32 percent of the poll respondents favored increasing U.S. troops in Afghanistan, while 40 percent favored decreasing them. And fewer than half, or 46 percent, of those polled said it was somewhat or very likely that Afghanistan would be able to withstand the radicals' threat.

Forty-one percent of those surveyed said the United States plays a less important and powerful role as a world leader than it did a decade ago, up from 25 percent who said that just before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the report said.

Pew Research Center President Andrew Kohut said in an interview that the "very bad economy" appeared most responsible for the growth of isolationist sentiment. He said the public was also "displeased with the two wars we are waging, in Iraq and Afghanistan."

While isolationism and unilateralism reached four-decade highs among the public, the stature of China increased.

Among Americans polled, 44 percent said China was the world's leading economic power compared with 27 percent who named the United States. In February 2008, 41 percent said the U.S. was the leading economic power, while 30 percent said China.

A majority of Americans surveyed, or 53 percent, see China's emerging power as a threat to the United States.

The United States is seen by a comfortable majority, 63 percent, as the world's leading military power.

Concerning the Middle East, about half, or 51 percent, of respondents said they were more sympathetic toward Israel than to the Palestinians, who drew 12 percent. Fourteen percent supported neither side, while 19 percent offered no opinion.

The findings come from two surveys. The first poll, of 2,000 adults, was conducted by telephone Oct. 28 to Nov. 8 and had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. A subsequent poll of 1,003 people conducted from Nov. 12-15 had a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/12/poll_isolationism_soars_am...

=================================

So, they are saying -- if you don't want our CIA/military to bomb innocent Afghan families with drone technology, you are an 'isolationist'?

Are we to BELIEVE that when any Americans stand against our Ruling Elite's MILITARIST/IMPERIALIST adventures abroad, that we are to be classified as ISOLATIONISTS?

Absolutely a twisting of language, obfuscation of real issues, hiding of the true debate!

This isn't language for communication. This is twisting language to prevent clear communication.

Many local pet shelters make the animal researchers LIVID. All a shelter has to do is refuse to be a source for researchers who want lab animals from them.

If refusing to support researchers' insistence on using companion animals (or for that matter, any animals) for research is considered an "extremist" position, what does that make a local shelter which takes that stand? I wonder.

Big Ed supports Obama In Af gaffistan now!
Submitted by taozen on Thu, 12/03/2009 - 1:32pm.
I guess the news of the Comcast purchase helped him make up his mind. yesterday he had a different view.

=====================

That's so sad.

Have you heard anything about contractors using drones?

That's messed up if it's true. Contractors aren't supposed to have kill authority. Their role before Bush was purely in a support role. This is a huge problem. As you know, they operate beyond the courts.

Hello! Houston! We have a problem!

scary thought because i think the stress of the office would have him sidelined or pushing daises in the first few months and we would be getting used to the phrase "her majesty and dictator for life sarah palin" or worse "president boehner" (my theory is that if mcnutts could win the presidency, the dems would probably lose the house at the same time).

either way, we would probably be dealing with a variety of problems from the consequences of having glassed iran.

if you recall the movie "a few good men", i have often thought that it is more representative of the cia than of the marines, in the sense that there is a group of people that are doing things "civilized" people don't discuss under the guise of keeping the world safe for democracy.

the problem is that democracy has been replaced by corporatism and keeping things safe isn't necessarily in the best interest of the average man on the street.

Reform or Else
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Health care reform hangs in the balance. Its fate rests with a handful of “centrist” senators — senators who claim to be mainly worried about whether the proposed legislation is fiscally responsible.

But if they’re really concerned with fiscal responsibility, they shouldn’t be worried about what would happen if health reform passes. They should, instead, be worried about what would happen if it doesn’t pass. For America can’t get control of its budget without controlling health care costs — and this is our last, best chance to deal with these costs in a rational way.

Some background: Long-term fiscal projections for the United States paint a grim picture. Unless there are major policy changes, expenditure will consistently grow faster than revenue, eventually leading to a debt crisis.

What’s behind these projections? An aging population, which will raise the cost of Social Security, is part of the story. But the main driver of future deficits is the ever-rising cost of Medicare and Medicaid. If health care costs rise in the future as they have in the past, fiscal catastrophe awaits.

You might think, given this picture, that extending coverage to those who would otherwise be uninsured would exacerbate the problem. But you’d be wrong, for two reasons.

First, the uninsured in America are, on average, relatively young and healthy; covering them wouldn’t raise overall health care costs very much.

Second, the proposed health care reform links the expansion of coverage to serious cost-control measures for Medicare. Think of it as a grand bargain: coverage for (almost) everyone, tied to an effort to ensure that health care dollars are well spent.

Are we talking about real savings, or just window dressing? Well, the health care economists I respect are seriously impressed by the cost-control measures in the Senate bill, which include efforts to improve incentives for cost-effective care, the use of medical research to guide doctors toward treatments that actually work, and more. This is “the best effort anyone has made,” says Jonathan Gruber of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. A letter signed by 23 prominent health care experts — including Mark McClellan, who headed Medicare under the Bush administration — declares that the bill’s cost-control measures “will reduce long-term deficits.”

The fact that we’re seeing the first really serious attempt to control health care costs as part of a bill that tries to cover the uninsured seems to confirm what would-be reformers have been saying for years: The path to cost control runs through universality. We can only tackle out-of-control costs as part of a deal that also provides Americans with the security of guaranteed health care.

That observation in itself should make anyone concerned with fiscal responsibility support this reform. Over the next decade, the Congressional Budget Office has concluded, the proposed legislation would reduce, not increase, the budget deficit. And by giving us a chance, finally, to rein in the ever-growing spending of Medicare, it would greatly improve our long-run fiscal prospects.

But there’s another reason failure to pass reform would be devastating — namely, the nature of the opposition.

The Republican campaign against health care reform has rested in part on the traditional arguments, arguments that go back to the days when Ronald Reagan was trying to scare Americans into opposing Medicare — denunciations of “socialized medicine,” claims that universal health coverage is the road to tyranny, etc.

But in the closing rounds of the health care fight, the G.O.P. has focused more and more on an effort to demonize cost-control efforts. The Senate bill would impose “draconian cuts” on Medicare, says Senator John McCain, who proposed much deeper cuts just last year as part of his presidential campaign. “If you’re a senior and you’re on Medicare, you better be afraid of this bill,” says Senator Tom Coburn.

If these tactics work, and health reform fails, think of the message this would convey: It would signal that any effort to deal with the biggest budget problem we face will be successfully played by political opponents as an attack on older Americans. It would be a long time before anyone was willing to take on the challenge again; remember that after the failure of the Clinton effort, it was 16 years before the next try at health reform.

That’s why anyone who is truly concerned about fiscal policy should be anxious to see health reform succeed. If it fails, the demagogues will have won, and we probably won’t deal with our biggest fiscal problem until we’re forced into action by a nasty debt crisis.

So to the centrists still sitting on the fence over health reform: If you care about fiscal responsibility, you better be afraid of what will happen if reform fails.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/04/opinion/04krugman.html?_r=1&partner=rs...

toniD's Ya Think?

Landrieu Invents The Unholy Grail Of Worthless Public Option Gimmicks

It appears Mary Landrieu (D-LA) has created the unholy grail of terrible gimmicks meant to cripple the public option. It is a several-year-delayed, triggered, state-based, non-public co-op limited to the exchange option:

Landrieu calls her proposal the "competitive community option," which sounds remarkably similar to a trigger proposal advocated by Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine).

A state-based nonprofit insurance competitor would kick into effect where coverage is not considered affordable. It would receive seed money from the government, but would be funded through premiums.

In contrast to Snowe's proposal, Landrieu's proposal would not be available on Day One. Landrieu refers to her idea as a "fallback." She said the insurance market reforms should be given a chance to work.

This is absurd. The simple addition of a trigger designed to never be pulled was enough to ensure a public option will never be a reality; this massive additional bundle of qualifiers is sufficient to ensure this “alternative” will be a laughing stock. Would it even be possible to make this idea more worthless? How else could Landrieu, Lincoln, or Lieberman make it even weaker? Is an idea floating around to limit it to only people whose last names start with J? Maybe they will demand that this non-public option be run by a board of directors comprised of cats? Perhaps it can only sign up customers between 2 and 3pm on Sundays in months that end with -uary.

If Democrats think they can sell this worthless pile of bad ideas as a public option, they must have a very low opinion of the intelligence of the American people.

The Democratic party needs to prepare themselves. If Senate Democrats think they can pass a bill forcing Americans to buy extremely expensive junk insurance from for-profit corporations, with only the vague promise that possibly, after five more years of abuse, they might get the to choose a completely unworkable, state-based, non-public "alternative," they are in for a rude awakening. If there is no real alternative to the abusive, for-profit, private insurance companies, and very meager tax credits, I don't know how progressives can morally, politically, or intellectually allow an individual mandate to become law.

http://jwalkerreport.blogspot.com/2009/12/landrieu-invents-unholy-grail-...

toniD's Ya Think?

That will help with your cholesterol. Sacrifice for the cause.

N0 pleasure driving. Only so much oil/fuel on the planet you want to give some of your share to the War effort.

Spend 10% less this holiday season and give that money to the Red Cross.

Senator Chris Dodd Raises Roubini Predictions at Bernanke Confirmation Hearings

Video at link

http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/258067/senator_chris_dodd_rais...

toniD's Ya Think?

Jobs

Better than expected. -11,000 jobs and unemployment drops to 10%.

-Atrios 08:49

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/12/employment-report-11k-jobs-los...

toniD's Ya Think?

i think the correct phrase is "not as bad as it was feared"

there was no job creation, just fewer jobs lost and that would be consistent with there's nobody left to get rid of and still stay in business.

as for the drop in unemployment, i'm pretty sure that reflects that people are falling off the end of unemployment not that fewer are entering the pipeline.

http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/258067/senator_chris_dodd_rais...

It seems that Dodd wants to keep the same players in the game but admits the rules of the game are broken and "we will fix that now". "Trust us somemore now that we admit our mistakes. sounds like Tiger trying to get back in to the marriage,and keep the business that he had profited from.
-----------
Toni that Comcast support of the Rediculoso Healthcare bill from yesterday's post seems bad on all levels .
======
In my open mic from The ANNALS of Internal Medicine by the AMERICAN College of Physicians it is easy to see that there are wiser,clearer people on the planet that have adult solutions.

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia and the United States are close to a deal to cut vast arsenals of nuclear weapons, Russia said on Friday, as the world's two biggest atomic powers rush to replace a Cold War treaty that expires at midnight.

The White House and the Kremlin say that finding a replacement for the 1991 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, the biggest nuclear arms reduction deal in history, would help to "reset" relations after the rows of recent years.

Presidents Barack Obama and Dmitry Medvedev had said they intended to find a replacement for the treaty -- known as START-1 -- before it expired on Dec 5.

Now diplomats in Moscow and Washington are talking about finding a deal by the year-end, although it is still unclear when the two presidents could meet for a signing ceremony.

"Intensive work on preparations for the signing are coming to a close," the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement e-mailed to news agencies. It did not give further details of the talks.

Negotiations between the two sides have been proceeding in Switzerland under unusually tight secrecy. Both parties have committed to a news blackout on details of the talks and even senior embassy officials are not being fully briefed.

The new deal would cut the number of deployed nuclear weapons as well as the submarines, bombers and missiles used to launch them, although the United States and Russia would still have enough firepower to destroy the world several times over.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/12/russia_says_us_arms_deal_c...

do not insure his rejection as Fed Chair by a Dem controlled congress, the time has come to dump them all, wholesale.

These people are idiots. They do not have a clue as to the fire they are starting....

At Last, One Government Agency Considers Cutting Mortgage Principal For Distressed Homeowners

FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair indicated Thursday that she is exploring the idea of reducing the principal on as much as $45 billion in mortgages her agency has acquired from failed banks.

That would be the first significant government attempt to employ a measure that some economists and consumer advocates have long argued is the only really effective way to stop foreclosures.

Although the $45 billion in mortgages only amounts to less than half of one percent of mortgages nationwide, the move would be significant because the idea of reducing principal has been all but dismissed for the last nine months by the Obama administration.

Economists like Yale University's John Geanakoplos, however, have argued that cutting the principal on delinquent loans should have been the administration's practice all along. For the nearly quarter of American homeowners who owe more on their mortgage than the house is worth, it's by far the best way to keep them in their homes and reduce foreclosures, Geanakoplos said in an interview last month.

Bair made her comments in an interview with Bloomberg News. She has not yet discussed her proposal with the Treasury Department, a senior administration official said Thursday in a brief interview. Though unfamiliar with the details of her proposal, the official said it was promising.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation no longer owns the mortgages directly; but when it sold them to solvent banks, it agreed to shoulder some of the future losses. Bair's move would effectively make sure that homeowners directly benefit from that guarantee, not just the lenders.

The Obama administration's $75 billion plan to help distressed borrowers has yet to make a serious dent in stopping foreclosures. In addition, when the plan was launched in March it was largely designed to help those homeowners with jobs, as the terms depended on minimum levels of income. Back then the unemployment rate was at 8.5 percent. Since then, the economy has shed about 2.5 million more jobs. more...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/04/at-last-one-government-ag_n_379...

toniD's Ya Think?

Former Employers More Likely To Allege Misconduct By Laid-Off Workers Than In Past Recessions

Laid-off workers seeking unemployment benefits today are almost twice as likely as their counterparts during the recession of the 1980s to be accused of misconduct by their former employers.

From 1980 to 1982, when the unemployment rate crept toward 10 percent, employers told state unemployment insurance offices that laid-off workers seeking benefits had been fired for misconduct between 5.9 and 7.1 percent of the time, according to Labor Department data compiled by the National Employment Law Project. In 2008, after climbing steadily for the past 25 years, the rate of misconduct claims reached 13 percent.

More than 22 million people filed unemployment claims in 2008. For 2.8 million of them, employers said it was the workers' own fault.

"If you're fired from a job and they can establish that you were fired for misconduct, you can get disqualified from an unemployment benefit," said NELP deputy director Andrew Stettner. (Workers who quit voluntarily are also ineligible.) "There's a big incentive."

Employers have an incentive to see former workers disquEmployers have an incentive to see former workers disqualified because businesses pay an unemployment tax that varies depending on the amount of benefits collected by ex-employees. (Unemployment tax rates, as well as eligibility requirements for benefits, vary from state to state.) And that savings is big money for third-party companies that are paid by employers to process appeals of unemployment claims. The biggest company is TALX, a wholly-owned subsidiary of credit bureau Equifax. TALX reportedly removes "over $6 billion in unemployment claims liability annually."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/03/former-employers-more-lik_n_376...

toniD's Ya Think?

***** :)

1. I already said I gave up pig and cow and all I/we get is grief from Ms_A (and you to a lesser extent and by implication) for not giving up chicken. FYI, I was a vegetarian (not a vegan--so sorry) for approximately 6 years and a small seafood vegetarian for about 9 more. Shit happens. None of your goddamn business what.

2. WTF is "pleasure driving?" Who does that? Not even teenagers with the gas prices now. At least not in my neighborhood. (And that's really saying something.) And what adult has time for "pleasure" anything?? You really need to give up your rich fantasy life about the disgusting decadence of people living outside of Gotham. I am sick as fuck of it.

3. I will probably end up spending about 20 dollars this holiday season, which is more than I have to spend. If I imagined I had planned to spend 22 and that I had two left over to give (which I may well do) I might not give it to the Red Cross. I might give it to the World Food Program. I might give it to my local food bank. (Oh wait, I do that most of the times I go to the supermarket.) I might give it to the ACLU. I might give it to FDL action. I might give it to any number of groups working on marriage equality and other LGBTQ issues. I certainly hope that is alright with you if I make that executive decision.

BTW, if you want to be absolutely up on your preaching about how to be perfect (as we all know you are), you should know that it is better to give AFTER the holiday season when everybody forgets helping and activist organizations and their coffers dry up.

4. Stop being a bossy asshat.

low, judging obama by wether macain and palin would have been better

i am particularly angry at obama today and i must say i have really had it

no, not afghanistan, today it is the economic policy, his ridiculous "jobs program"; caught on the fly while i was on the elliptic stepper:obama's policy consists of tax cuts and spending cuts, because 'the federal government can't spend its way out of a depression/recession' did he really say that? (haven't had time to catch up on the news and the blog yet, because i've been on the run since 5 am); so no stimulus for the hoipolloi (riffraff) we the needy people, is that what he said?

asshole

no, not a puma yet, but i am done with obama

and then...

so have I been wrong about anything yet?

besides hairstyles...lol

that Obama was more right wing than anyone here thought...

However if you become disenchanted so quickly that you no longer support that hairline difference that a centrist democrst represents then it slides right back into Reagan/Bush/Palin territory...aka the loveable goof...and more dismantling of any collective protection from the monied interests

Besides unscrupulous pricks can set up and force the actions of even the purest of souls

my point exactly...it is not when people are shouting dissent that you have to worry about them...it is when they suddenly stop.....

long time no see!

whass up?

tried to call bub but you were at moms place...

decided that enough time had passed that I should put the computor back together...

not sure I'm gonna keep it going...sort of a test run at reality checking...ahem

from Michael Moore via Bartcop.com

Obama: “We Did Not Ask for This Fight”
Bush: “We Did Not Seek This Conflict”

Obama: “New Attacks are Being Plotted as I Speak”
Bush: “At This Moment…Terrorists are Planning New Attacks”

Obama: “Our Cause is Just, Our Resolve Unwavering”
Bush: “Our Cause is Just, Our Coalition [is] Determined”

Obama: “This Is No Idle Danger, No Hypothetical Threat”
Bush: “The Enemies of Freedom Are Not Idle”

see?

told ya

SOS DD.

so give me a call now, i'm awake, 90% coherent and have a fresh coffee.

Naw...more of a sliver of difference...but it's better than another slice in the other direction...

But ya know people really don't listen to long hairs like me even if we're dead on accurate 99.99% of the time...

lol

Good Morning Sederville. IT'S A SUNNY 48F

BEFORE

AFTER

-----------

Sun-Maid girl' makeover sparks controversy
by Brett Michael Dykes
Tuesday, December 1, 2009

In the annals of advertising imagery, few brand symbols are more iconic and recognizable than the Sun-Maid raisin girl.

Sun-Maid

Nevertheless, Sun-Maid recently decided to join Betty Crocker, Aunt Jemima and Mrs. Butterworth's in giving the female face of their product a substantial makeover from a young, early 20th-century girl into a buxom, modern young woman, leading some to say that the newly made-over raisin girl looks like a Barbie Doll in Amish attire.

con't

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/108296/sun-maid-girl-makeov...

a message from our president (university president, that is)

http://www.archive.org/details/NewOrleansAModelCityForThe21stCentury_38

December 4, 2009

Good Morning:

Yesterday, City Council President Arnie Fielkow and I presented “Five Things You Should Know About New Orleans” to the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. We wanted to send the national media a different kind of message regarding New Orleans.

Our main points were:

1. The tragedy of Hurricane Katrina will result in New Orleans being a better and stronger city in the future.

Katrina exposed flaws – crumbling federally-built levees, a government unprepared, poverty and other signs of a community that had failed its youth. But this tragedy also awakened citizens to the need for change.

2. As a result of Katrina, New Orleans can serve as a demonstration lab for disaster recovery and transformation.

We now know how to plan for and respond to emergencies. We know the value of public/private partnerships that are revolutionizing our school system and establishing community health centers to provide medical care for the uninsured. We know how to recover our economy and even how to deal with FEMA.

3. Our recovery is a superb example of civic activism and resiliency.

Citizens voted out a wasteful system of seven tax assessors and multiple parish levee boards. They demanded funding for an inspector general to root out corruption and they banded together to demand effective and accountable government.

4. New Orleans is an iconoclastic city, which has retained its distinctiveness and charm despite the challenges and hardships it has and does face.

There are now more restaurants in New Orleans than before Katrina. We ranked first in more categories in Travel + Leisure Magazine’s 2009 “America’s Favorite Cities” survey than any other city. We are a hotbed of entrepreneurship and the quintessential sports town – hosting the Super Bowl in 2013 and the men's and women’s NCAA Final Four basketball championships in 2012 and 2013. Not to mention our undefeated Saints.

5. New Orleans has the potential to become a model city for the 21st century.

Great things are in store for New Orleans. We have gotten a taste of positive change. We want more and we aspire to be a model for the country.

I was honored to share our city’s message on a national stage. I hope you, too, will share these five things with everyone you encounter, especially out-of-town friends and family. Together, we can make the story of New Orleans known far and wide.

Have a great weekend,

lol, that's perfect

So now I have to go see a
neurologist - phew - what
next? They can't figure out
what the hell is going on
with me.
Brain Tumor, NO
Hearing - o.k.
VNR Test - Negative
Therapy - don't need
Not knowing what the hell
is going on - priceless!

Submitted by gloryoski on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 10:48am.

and you surely misunderstood my intentions. If people want to stay in perpetual war state and they are living large they become complacent and forget The victims. I know you and I live on very little. .Wasn't meatless friday's by the catholics a moment to feel for the loss of life/blood? .
-----
and you called Capt Kirk fat. I thought we weren't going down that insensitive road. . .

There is some evidence that the hormones in meat can make the habitual eater more angry. Anger is often seen in warriors.

there is evidence that a better diet will have ecomonic benefit in preventive health care. I know we all want to do our share to relieve the strain on the system. No one wants to have a heart attack or even mad cow's disease.

I rerally dont want you to get all mad at me. i was offering some food for thought about our American attitude to killing others in a futile attempt to end terrorists.

and they STILL haven't fixed the crumbling federally-built levees

Submitted by Sunshine Jim on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 11:22am.

Is there a better smell than fresh life?

the answer to the poll question is of course not!

i thought they tasted a bit different.

If McLiar had won we would that much closer to the final destruction of this evil empire. This is the only outcome for the capitalist system. And it is the only outcome for a country founded on conquest, grounded on genocide and built on literal and wage slavery. We've been on this path since 1492. We're just now approaching the end. These are the simply the gray years.
The systems of oppression in this country are so powerful and entrenched they simply have to collapse as their own inherit inconsistencies play out. We are powerless now to intervene.
Malloy played that chilling recording last night of a professional, detached execution for afar. Earlier, Mike, mentioned how most Americans favor torture. That's where we are. This is what a fascist state is.
Those drones, btw, were developed initially for domestic use: To fight our war on drugs and war on brown people. Of course, if there ever were serious opposition to our government, they would be used more savagely to eliminate rabble rousers-- "terrorists"; once called "savages."
The Nazi mindset was largely ended in Berlin when the country was reduced to rubble. That's where we are now. What about the death camps? We call them correctional facilities. And they are filled to the gills.
If the nightmare is now too tiring, why not vote for Sarah?
Otherwise, believe in miracles, and vote for the "opposition."

(I’m a driver, I’m a winner; things are gonna change I can feel it)

I feel for all couples who are not getting treated equally.

I heard it was a right wing Latino group of Dems along with others in Orthodox religions and those who are be holding to the Insurance lobby.

pup - someone save that
poor puppy!

re: I already said I gave up pig and cow and all I/we get is grief from Ms_A
... W R O N G ! ...
I SAID I EAT CHICKEN/FOUL {for they can be seasoned to taste like darn near EVERYTHNG - so that is HOW I STOPPED EATING LAMB, PIG, BEEF.

THIS IS WHAT ANGERS ME:

I SAID SOME, AS ME WITH "O" BLOOD, CRAVE meat (more than choc) THE ONLY THING I THEN SAID WAS TO HONOUR CHICKEN, give them FREE-SPACE {since no longer used for PIGS & LAMBS & COWS) and give them A SACRED DEATH for they are SACRED!
...
You mispeak and then abruse me - "thus turn about is fair play".

I DON'T START THE FIGHT. BUT I WILL RESPOND AND DEFEND MYSELF.
NOW I SEE WHAT LIES WITHIN YOU, IN TRUTH!

**

Ms_A
hope u r well

Obama way different than Asshole "W"!
Submitted by Sunshine Jim on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 11:07am.
from Michael Moore via Bartcop.com
http://www.samsedershow.com/node/5523#comment-384054

...too close for comfort. My line in the sand may be drawn when the decision for Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission is handed down and which side Justice Sotomayor's vote is counted.
http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=Citizens_United_v._Federal_Ele...

re: smcgee43 on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 11:57am.

Jasmina Anema Meets Obama: Girl With Leukemia Finally Sees President

"Unfortunately Jasmina's leukemia returned. Her mother, Thea Anema told the New York Daily News, "Life was slowly going back to normal, and now it's just devastating, truly devastating."

In an interview recorded before her failed Thanksgiving trip, the resilient girl admitted she couldn't sleep because she was so excited."

"this machine kills fascists"

I think the real question should be HOW ARE YOU?
Just Bee Better! K?

In Lebanon, up to 400,000 Palestinian refugees live in camps with almost no access to jobs, education or health care. Unfortunately the situation is not any better for families living in Gaza and the West Bank.

In world that often turns a blind eye to the plight of refugee families, show the thousands of displaced Palestinian families that you care. Please send your personal message of hope to the families that need it most >>

The American Near East Refugee Aid (ANERA) delivers life-saving medicine, food and water to people throughout the Middle East and have volunteered to hand deliver your personal messages to families throughout the region letting them know that they are not forgotten. Send your message today >>

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/625002806?z00m=19810078

Aetna Forcing 600,000-Plus To Lose Coverage In Effort To Raise Profits

Health insurance giant Aetna is planning to force up to 650,000 clients to drop their coverage next year as it seeks to raise additional revenue to meet profit expectations.

In a third-quarter earnings conference call in late October, officials at Aetna announced that in an effort to improve on a less-than-anticipated profit margin in 2009, they would be raising prices on their consumers in 2010. The insurance giant predicted that the company would subsequently lose between 300,000 and 350,000 members next year from its national account as well as another 300,000 from smaller group accounts.

"The pricing we put in place for 2009 turned out to not really be what we needed to achieve the results and margins that we had historically been delivering," said chairman and CEO Ron Williams. "We view 2010 as a repositioning year, a year that does not fully reflect the earnings potential of our business. Our pricing actions should have a noticeable effect beginning in the first quarter of 2010, with additional financial impact realized during the remaining three quarters of the year."

Aetna's decision to downsize the number of clients in favor of higher premiums is, as one industry analyst told American Medical News, a "pretty candid" admission. It also reflects the major concerns offered by health care reform proponents and supporters of a public option for insurance coverage, who insist that the private health insurance industry is too consumed with the bottom line. A government-run plan would operate solely off its members' premiums.

Aetna actually made a profit in 2009 but not at levels that it anticipated.

"They were surprised by an acceleration in medical costs in 2009 which pressured their earnings," Josh Raskin, an industry analyst for Barclays Capital, told the Huffington Post. "In an effort to get back to a more profitable level, they are raising their prices to match cost trends. When you raise rates, you run the risk of losing your membership. Health insurance is a very competitive marketplace."

As Williams told investors on the call: "The pricing that we put in place for 2009 turned out to not really be what we needed to achieve the results and margins that we had historically been delivering."

Aetna is one of the largest insurers in the private market, covering roughly 17.7 million people according to its 2008 annual report. It is also a major player in the current health care debate and inside Washington D.C. The insurance company has spent more than $2 million on lobbying just in 2009, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

American Medical News, which first reported the story, noted that this is not the first time the insurance giant has cut the rolls in an effort to boost profit margins. "As chronicled in a 2004 article in Health Affairs by health economist James C. Robinson, MD, PhD, Aetna completely overhauled its business between 2000 and 2003, going from 21 million members in 1999 down to 13 million in 2003, but boosting its profit margin from about 4% to higher than 7%."

A spokesperson at Aetna did not return calls and emails for comment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/04/aetna-forcing-600000-plus_n_380...

toniD's Ya Think?

...ya know the {FINAL BOOHOO} MONK MARATHON HAS BEEN GOING ON, correct?
;)

December 3, 2009

All-Too-Familiar Line on Afghanistan

By LAURA FLANDERS

The President talked about America’s enduring values again at West Point Tuesday night, and then he laid them out, a whole lot of values one can only wish would endure a little less.

The President began his address to the nation on Afghanistan in the traditional style of his predecessor, setting the tone for troop deployments by recalling 9-11 and terror and fright. Then came the retelling of the traditional Al Qaeda story, the one that omits any mention of Saudi Arabia or Israeli occupation or post-Gulf War US bases — in fact any mention of politics.

Sadly, our new president seemed to share George W. Bush’s appreciation for the value of a simple villain and not asking questions. So much for those who seek a new narrative, one that might include the debate that exists around the world about the merits and real demerits of war as a response to a criminal terrorist act.

Having declared legitimacy, the president then claimed responsibility, a special American responsibility and authority to invade, police, and act in ways that other countries may not.

Amazingly, the nation’s first Black president retold the simplest national founding story: “Our union was founded in resistance to oppression.” (For his wife’s ancestors it was not.) And he made the classic claim of innocence “We do not seek to occupy other nations. We will not claim another nation’s resources.” (The US has a long history, of course, of helping our corporations do just that, from Chevron to United Fruit.)
http://www.counterpunch.org/flanders11032009.html

there are several events coming up soon that if they go badly will signal unequivocally this government making a hard turn into fascism...so much so that even Joe Sixpack and Jane Winebox will realize it...that is definitely one of them...

The thin veil of Democracy is almost completely gone...

Submitted by smcgee43 on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 11:29am.
So now I have to go see a
neurologist - phew - what
next?
-----

It'll be alright Smcgee. Hopefully it's nothing serious. Maybe just a touch of Bushitis and Scarlet Cheney.

Ayers Demonstrates Against Obama: 'Appalled And Alarmed' By War (VIDEO)

For more proof that Bill Ayers and Barack Obama are not, actually close, video has surfaced of the education professor protesting in Chicago against the president's decision to send more troops to Afghanistan.

"I am appalled and alarmed that once again we are escalating the war, and the idea that there are benchmarks for getting out are a myth and a lie," Ayers said. "This is an absolute tragedy."

WATCH:

Long after the election, conservatives still tout the supposed connection between Obama and Ayers. Some even took a video of Ayers jokingly saying he wrote Obama's memoir as a true confession.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/04/ayers-demonstrates-agains_n_380...

toniD's Ya Think?

just like there's nothing wrong with the word _queer_. If you had looked at the poem that I had told you about, or even at links that came up as hits related to it, instead of just going about educating yourself from a clinical perspective (as valuable as those articles are) you might have learned that.

Since we had our conversation, you have, at least once, used other terms to denigrate fat people. (I forget exactly the word) Apparently you thought that because you used a polysyllabic term and because it was not THAT word, it was OK. That was dumb, no? (Rhetorical question.)

I didn't assume you were talking only to me. I simply responded for myself. But, the real point is, I would like you to tell who on this blog needs to be lectured like that by you. We are already doing all we can, being who we are and doing the other things we do, to make the world a better place. We all know oil is finite and that burning it is disastrous for the climate. We all know consumer culture as it exists now (and especially combined with stagnant/falling wages [if any]) is not healthy. We all know there are many people worse off than us that need our help. Your post adds no new information about any of those things. It simply reiterates, by implication, that these facts exist and tells us exactly what you think we should do about it at this particular point in time. Therefore it just sounds (to me anyhow) like you want to convey that you are the font of virtue. Perhaps if that had not been your attitude at other times, and perhaps if I was not feeling overwhelmed already at that particular moment I would not have had that reaction. So I apologize--up to a point.

I am not even going to respond to the meat/veggie diet equals more/less anger stuff. It is more preaching and it is petty.

----
MsA: Bullshit. That was not all you said. The words MEAT MURDER (referring inclusively to eating birds and in all caps of course) was used. I am not going to take up my time to try to find that link to refresh your selective memory about that particular "I am good; you all, not so much" tirade. In general, I respect your commitment (maybe in some ways you are a better person than I am) but as a political tactic shaming has limited utility and should be used judiciously. When it is accompanied by self-aggrandizement, it has the effect of alienating most people from the causes and opinions you espouse. Information, not brow-beating is the key--perhaps info given in a form that does not take up to five readings to understand. If you don't know that by now, it's quite possible that you don't know what "LIES WITHIN [anybody] IN TRUTH."

Submitted by toniD on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 12:12pm.
--------

(ever stop being an asshat?

Joe is the kind of person I was thinking about Gloryoski. he is your enemy not me.

Top Congressional Researcher on Afghanistan Fired
Michael Isikoff

The top congressional official who oversees research on foreign policy and defense issues, including the war in Afghanistan, has been fired from his job after publishing a newspaper op-ed criticizing the Obama administration's recent decision about bringing Guantánamo detainees to trial.

Morris Davis, the assistant director of the Congressional Research Service's foreign policy and defense division and the former chief prosecutor of the U.S. military commissions, says that the American Civil Liberties Union plans to challenge his dismissal in a letter to CRS's longtime director, Daniel Mulhollan, on Friday. The letter will contend that Mulhollan violated Davis's First Amendment rights to free speech by firing him and will threaten the service with a lawsuit if he is not reinstated, says an ACLU spokeswoman.

"The irony is we're located in the Madison Building," says Davis, referring to the office building across the street from the Capitol where CRS is headquartered. "It's named for the man who wrote the First Amendment."

Asked for comment, Janine D'Addario, a spokesman for CRS and for its director, says that "as a matter of professional courtesy and out of respect for the confidentiality" of the staff, "CRS will not comment on personnel-related matters."

But another CRS official (who asked not to be identified because of the issue's sensitivity) confirms Davis's firing and says it reflects persistent tensions between Mulhollan and some members of his staff over how far they can go in making public comments or publishing articles that might prove controversial with members of Congress. Another CRS researcher got into a similar dispute and was transferred to another job after publishing a newspaper op-ed criticizing congressional oversight of the Iraq War, the official notes.

"The director has a paranoid fear that somebody somewhere is going to say something" that draws criticism from members of Congress, says the CRS official. "The director is very strict about us giving out our personal views or taking a position on issues."

Much like the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting Office, CRS is a critical player on Capitol Hill, providing members of Congress with reams of reports and analyses that it touts on its Web site as "objective and nonpartisan."

Davis was hired last December as the chief of one of CRS's five key divisions, overseeing 95 policy analysts and other experts on all matters relating to national defense (including all matters relating to Aghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq), foreign policy, and international trade issues.

But Davis, who resigned as the chief prosecutor for the U.S. military commission in 2007 over disputes about the fairness of the process, did not have specific responsibility for research on Guantánamo issues, the subject of his op-ed. Those are handled by another CRS unit, the Law division. more...

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/archive/2009/12/03/top-congr...

toniD's Ya Think?

He has lost a lot of his accent, but when he says words like "fillabusta" there is no doubt he grew up in Brooklyn. :)

Top Congressional Researcher on Afghanistan Fired

new
Submitted by toniD on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 12:31pm.

sounds Bushy to me.

that penetrates my tunnel vision.

You can take the Jew out of Brooklyn but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the Jew.

What a melting pot Brooklyn has always been. I think he learned about how to live with others in a compassionate way from the Brooklyn experience.

As the Senate continues to debate the historic health care bill, we are facing the very real possibility that it will include a discriminatory and dangerous amendment that puts millions of women and young girls at grave risk.

The amendment will be almost identical to the Stupak-Pitts Amendment in the House bill. The Stupak measure bans reproductive coverage in all subsidized plans and restricts reproductive care even for women who buy their own private insurance with their own money.

The Senate is set to act on the health care legislation any day now. We've got to raise our voices against this measure and demand that it not be included in the health care bill. If it is, it would be a serious blow to women's health and a woman's right to choose.

Please join me and thousands of others in signing the Stop Stupak petition today. Tell Congress we will not tolerate this terrible affront to women's rights and women's health.

We've already made a huge step forward in reaching our goal of providing health care coverage to the millions of uninsured Americans. But if we allow this amendment to be included in the bill, it would be an enormous step back.

The Stupak measure is the only part of the health care bill that gives the government the power to dictate our medical decisions and invade our personal lives. The worst part is that it targets low-income women. These women will be forced to postpone care, which can lead to serious health risks, particularly for young girls.

Let's stand together and show Congress the massive grassroots support for keeping this unfair and unsafe amendment out of the health care bill.

Click here to add your name to the Stop Stupak petition. Join the thousands of other concerned citizens who've spoken out against this threat to women's reproductive health.

I promise to do everything I can to prevent this amendment from being included in the Senate health care bill. But I need your help. Please help me fight back this assault on the reproductive rights of women.

Sincerely,
Kirsten Gillibrand Democrate for the U.S. Senate

http://action.stopstupak.com/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=385&tag=KG_...

maybe it's just stress, no? maybe it's only something that'll require the neurologist to prescribe you some "good" drugs :)

----
I SAID "O" BLOOD AND WHY I EAT CHIKEN & FOWL & NO LONGER LAMB BEEF NOR PIG & you are not worth me finding further. You & others as you that MISREPRESENT are the exact reason for my "ATTITUDE". I am not here to constantly "play Nurse-Maid" to EXPLAIN what you and others purposely CHOOSE to MISREPRESENT.

*** ***
MsA: Bullshit. That was not all you said. The words MEAT MURDER (referring inclusively to eating birds and in all caps of course) was used. I am not going to take up my time to try to find that link to refresh your selective memory about that particular "I am good; you all, not so much" tirade. In general, I respect your commitment (maybe in some ways you are a better person than I am) but as a political tactic shaming has limited utility and should be used judiciously. When it is accompanied by self-aggrandizement, it has the effect of alienating most people from the causes and opinions you espouse. Information, not brow-beating is the key--perhaps info given in a form that does not take up to five readings to understand. If you don't know that by now, it's quite possible that you don't know what "LIES WITHIN [anybody] IN TRUTH."

can't we all just get along????
Come on peeps... :)

sorry to hear you're not feeling well sandy
Submitted by mire on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 1:11pm.

I'm feeling weird. But that is not that
unusual. lol
I have not been @ work now for about 2 months
thank god I have good benefits. I am borrowing
from the sick bank @ work. Which does not
please me - but what else is a girl
supposed to do in a situation like mine.
I travel an hour to & from work. I'm a little
nervous driving that far.
Just call em Dizzy McGee :0

My conspiracy theorist buddy sent it to me...

Psychology Today Hit Piece Labels Conspiracy Thinking A Psychotic Illness

"In an article entitled Dark Minds: When does incredulity become paranoia, Psychology Today writer John Gartner attempts to make the case that the concerns of “conspiracy theorists” are not based in reality but are a product of mental instability, while himself fulfilling every criteria for what he claims classifies such people as psychotics – ignoring evidence that contradicts his preconceptions while embracing the ludicrous “conspiracy theory” that powerful men and governments do not conspire to advance their power."

and the piece that elicited the retort.

Field Guide to the Conspiracy Theorist: Dark Minds

I don't even know where to start my reply...

"this machine kills fascists"

Bhopal survivors demand action

Thousands of children whose parents were exposed to the leak have suffered birth defects [Reuters]

Hundreds of residents of the Indian city of Bhopal have held a vigil to mark 25 years since a deadly chemical leak in the city caused the world's worst industrial disaster.

Survivors and local residents joined activists late on Wednesday to remember the thousands of victims of the leak from a pesticide plant owned by US chemical company Union Carbide on December 3, 1984.

According to research conducted by the state-run Indian Council of Medical Research, between 8,000 and 10,000 people were killed in the immediate aftermath of the disaster.

About 25,000 others later died from the effects of exposure while government estimates say the fumes affected half a million.

Toxic legacy

Activists say tens of thousands of people in Bhopal - many not even born at the time of the disaster - still suffer chronic illnesses related to the leak.

Bhopal disaster
Shortly after midnight on December 3, 1984, about 40 tonnes of the highly poisonous methyl isocyanate gas leaked from a tank at the Union Carbide plant in Bhopal.

The state-run Indian Council of Medical Research says 8,000-10,000 people were killed within three days and 25,000 more subsequently died from the effects of exposure.

More than 500,000 people are estimated to have been affected by the leak.

US chemical firm Union Carbide says the leak was an act of sabotage by a disgruntled employee - never identified - and not lax safety standards or faulty plant design, as claimed by some activists.

Union Carbide, owned by Dow Chemical, says the legal case was resolved in 1989 when it settled with the Indian government for $470m – compensation some activists say has not reached many victims.

They say children born to parents exposed to the gas leak or poisoned by the contaminated water are suffering from cleft lips, missing palates, twisted limbs, varying degrees of brain damage and a range of skin, vision and breathing disorders.

The state government says it has complied with a 2004 High Court order to clean up the waste at the site but critics say only a partial clearance of toxins was done.

Studies released on the eve of the anniversary said more than 350 tonnes of toxic waste strewn around the site still pollutes soil and groundwater in the area, leading to cancer, congenital defects, immunity problems and other illnesses.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/12/2009123591239173.html

Not on the menu-- while sanctioning India's illegal nuclear program:

Obama hails 'friendship between a President and a PM'

Mentioning Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize, Dr Singh said, "We warmly applaud the recognition of the Nobel Committee of the healing touch that you have provided and the power of your idealism and vision. Your leadership of this nation coincides with profound changes in the world".

Batting for stronger Indo-US ties, the PM said, "We need to find new pathways of international cooperation that respond more effectively to the grave challenges caused by the growing interdependence of nations. As two leading democracies, India and the United States must play a leading role in building a shared destiny for all humankind.
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/nov/25/pm-arrives-for-obamas-gala-din...

ROTFLMMAO!

"this machine kills fascists"

Gore Cancels Climate Lecture In Copenhagen »

AP | December 3, 2009 at 05:20 PM

COPENHAGEN — Climate campaigner Al Gore has canceled a lecture he was supposed to deliver in Copenhagen.

The former vice president and Nobel Peace Prize winner had been scheduled to speak to more than 3,000 people at a Dec. 16 event hosted by the Berlingske Tidende newspaper group.

The group says Gore canceled the lecture Thursday, citing unforeseen changes in his schedule.

Gore spokeswoman Kalee Kreider says the decision was made because of "all the events going on with the summit." Dec. 16 is a key date for the meeting because that's when the ministerial segment starts.

Chief editor Lisbeth Knudsen says it's a "great disappointment" that Gore canceled and that all tickets will be refunded.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20091203/climate-gore

toniD's Ya Think?

Durbin: The Trigger Proposal Has Not Been Abandoned

The man tasked with counting the votes for Democrats in the Senate told reporters on Friday that the caucus was still considering health care reform that included a public option "triggered" by economic conditions.

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), in a conference call organized by Families USA, made no commitments regarding what proposal the party would ultimately settle upon. But he stressed that his preference remains a public plan.

But, in an admission that will be disheartening to his fellow progressives, the Illinois Democrat did note that leadership was engaged in "serious negotiations" on "a variety of different ideas." And with the goal of getting 60 votes to fend off a Republican filibuster, the senator said that the party was still looking at Senator Olympia Snowe's (R-ME) favorite proposal as a means of passing legislation.

"The trigger was originally Senator Snowe's idea and I don't think it has been abandoned," said Durbin. "We hope to bring her into the column of supporting this before this is over. So, it is not off the table. But there are many different conversations out there. There were conversations last night... within our own caucus, both the progressive side and the conservative side, trying to find what would be acceptable."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/04/durbin-the-trigger-propos_n_380...

toniD's Ya Think?

Nelson Amendment Expected To Fall Short Even With GOP Support

An amendment restricting abortions does not appear to have enough support to be attached to the Senate healthcare bill.

Senate Republican Whip Jon Kyl (Ariz.) said he expected that all but a few Republicans would support the Sen. Ben Nelson’s (D-Neb) amendment, which would restrict access to abortions for women who receive federal subsidies.

But the amendment is likely to be subject to the Senate’s 60-vote threshold, and Kyl does not expect 20 votes on the other side to back the controversial change.

“Most Republicans will but I don’t think that will be enough to carry it through, it’s a 60-vote margin,” Kyl told The Hill Thursday afternoon.

Republicans control only 40 seats, which means Nelson would have to pick up the support of at least 19 Democrats (or 18 plus one of two independents), an unlikely scenario given strong opposition from the Democratic base.

Liberal Democrats were confident the measure, based on an amendment Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) succeeded in adding to the House bill, would not pass the upper chamber.

“I don’t think Stupak is passing so I’m not worried right now, we’re going to defeat it,” said Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), one of the most outspoken Senate advocates for abortion rights.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said earlier in the day that Nelson’s amendment would be one of the next to reach the Senate floor and that his colleague was trying to round up GOP support.

“Whether he’s going to be joined by any Republicans, he’s waiting to find out,” Reid said.

But Nelson later told reporters that his amendment would not be ready for a vote until after the weekend, postponing a floor showdown over abortion rights.

The defeat of his amendment would be politically significant because Nelson has pledged to vote with Republicans to filibuster the health bill if it did not include the Stupak language.

“I’ve said at the end of the day if it doesn’t have Stupak language on abortion in it I won’t vote to move it off the floor,” Nelson told reporters.

Stupak’s measure would restrict women who receive federal subsidies from buying abortion coverage on insurance exchanges set up by the government.

Without Nelson, Democrats would need to pick up a Republican — most likely Sen. Olympia Snowe (Maine) or Susan Collins (Maine) — to pass the landmark bill through the Senate.

Liberal Democrats declined to say whether they would support a final healthcare bill that included Stupak’s language.

“We’ll see where we are at the end of the day but I know I’m not voting for Stupak,” said Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.).

Abortion-rights activists are not taking any chances.

NARAL Pro-Choice America announced Thursday afternoon that it would air television ads in markets around the country, including Maine and Virginia, criticizing Nelson and Stupak for putting a debate over abortion in the middle of the healthcare debate.

“Why would politicians like Bart Stupak introduce abortion into America’s healthcare debate?” asks a female narrator in the spot, which features a photo of Nelson. “Why are they trying to make it more difficult than ever before for women to buy insurance coverage for abortion in the new healthcare system … even if they use their own money?”

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/70551-nelson-amendment-expected-to-fa...

toniD's Ya Think?

Greenpeace Asks For Senate Investigation Into Newsweek's Big Oil Forum

On Tuesday, Newsweek hosted a climate and energy policy forum on Capitol Hill with the American Petroleum Institute. Now Greenpeace, which has been hectoring the magazine for weeks over its plans to partner with Big Oil for this forum, has asked the Senate to investigate whether the event was in violation of congressional rules.

In a letter to the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration, Greenpeace director Phil Radford cites guidelines that prohibit the "use of Senate space for any commercial, promotional, or profit-making purpose" and "signs, placards, photographs, brochures or pamphlets displaying a group or company name or logo."

Radford attached to his letter pamphlets and flyers from the event that featured both the Newsweek and API logos.

Newsweek columnist Howard Fineman moderated the panel, which included API lobbyist Jack Gerard with Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-N.D.), Rep. Edward Markey (D-Mass.) and Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.).

"Credible institutions like Newsweek and the U.S Congress need to stop doing business with un-credible institutions like the American Petroleum Institute," Greenpeace director Phil Radford told HuffPost. "Newsweek is using its advertising to allow corporations to buy access to Congress. It's part of this huge campaign of Big Oil to sap tax dollars for more subsidies when we really need clean energy jobs."

API has spent $5.8 million lobbying so far in 2009, according to disclosure reports.

Here's the Greenpeace letter: at link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/04/greenpeace-asks-for-senat_n_379...

toniD's Ya Think?

Berlusconi accused by mafia hitman Updated at 11:16 AM

Source: Financial Times

Silvio Berlusconi, Italy’s centre-right prime minister, has been named in court by a convicted killer as having links to Sicily’s Cosa Nostra mafia in the midst of a bombing campaign carried out by the mob in the early 1990s.

Gaspare Spatuzza, a Sicilian mobster who is cooperating with anti-mafia prosecutors, made the allegations against Mr Berlusconi while testifying in a high-security Turin court where Marcello Dell’Utri, a senator and close associate of the prime minister, was appealing against a nine-year jail sentence imposed for mafia association.

EDITOR’S CHOICE
Berlusconi seeks law to restore his immunity - Nov-27Rome rethink on US ID card suppliers - Nov-27Brazil court rules to extradite former Italian guerrilla - Nov-19Tax spat freezes Italian-Swiss talks - Nov-01Italy calls for Swiss calm after bank raids - Oct-30Italian police in tax raid on Swiss banks - Oct-28Mr Spatuzza testified that Giuseppe Graviano, a mafia clan leader later convicted for involvement in the bombings, had told him that Mr Berlusconi and Mr Dell’Utri had given “everything” he wanted.

“Thanks to the seriousness of these people, they have practically put the country in our hands,” Mr Spatuzza quoted Mr Graviano as saying. His allegations were broadcast live on television.

Mr Berlusconi, 73, and Mr Dell’Utri both strongly denied having any links to the mafia or to the Graviano family after Mr Spatuzza made the same allegations in depositions to prosecutors that were reported by the media last month.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5b5c593a-e0d5-11de-9f58-00144feab49a.html?cati...

toniD's Ya Think?

Delaware senator takes lead in crafting deal on nonprofit insurance plan

WASHINGTON - On the Senate floor, Democrats are debating Republicans on health care. Behind the scenes, they're debating each other.

Those closed-door discussions may be less predictable — and more consequential — as majority Democrats struggle to settle controversies within the party that are standing in the way of passage of President Barack Obama's sweeping health care overhaul. The most contentious of these is a proposal for the government to sell insurance in competition with private companies, an approach supported by liberals but opposed by most Democratic moderates and conservatives.

Democrats were engaged in urgent talks to settle the government insurance plan issue.

"Our caucus is now in the process of negotiating with ourselves because we need all 60 of us to get this done," moderate Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., said after emerging from one meeting. Senate procedures require 60 votes to overcome Republican delaying tactics designed to kill the bill.

...

Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del., along with Sens. Mark Begich of Alaska and Mark Warner of Va., are taking the lead in crafting a compromise. The idea remains a work in progress, but the three presented the outlines Thursday evening in a private meeting with about a half-dozen other moderates.

As described by Carper and Begich to reporters, the compromise would put a nonprofit insurance option in place only in states that didn't meet certain criteria for affordability and access. Instead of being controlled by the government, the plan could be run by a nonprofit board, and any initial government startup money would be repaid.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34273762/ns/business

What a bunch of wusses. And what a flim flam on the American people. We've had this before with BC/BS and it became a profit company. Grrr!

toniD's Ya Think?

Brown: Vitter, Coburn won't let me join amendment
By J. Taylor Rushing - 12/03/09 05:30 PM ET

Sens. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) and David Vitter (R-La.) are preparing an amendment to force members of Congress into any public option health plan that becomes law, frustrating at least one Senate Democrat who wants to join the effort.

Sen. Sherrod Brown (Ohio) said he is trying to co-sponsor the amendment — but that Coburn and Vitter won’t let him. Coburn and Vitter are planning to offer the amendment during the Senate floor debate on healthcare reform.

“They’ve not said yes to allow me to be a co-sponsor,” Brown told The Hill on Thursday. “I’ve called their office four times. I’m proud of the public option, I think it would be great and we ought to join it and show the country how good it is. I think my interest may be more genuine than theirs, but I’d like to work with them if they’ll let me. If they just want to score partisan points, I still want to work with them.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/70547-brown-vitter-cobu...

This amendment wasn't drawn up to pass. Vitter and Coburn thing this would insult the Senators.

toniD's Ya Think?

On Day Of Jobs Summit, Tom Coburn Submits Amendment Asking Federal Government To Fire People
By: David Dayen Friday December 4, 2009 8:41 am

A lot of people are linking to this story in The Hill about how Tom Coburn and David Vitter won’t let Democrat Sherrod Brown join their amendment that would force members of Congress to use the public option:

Sen. Sherrod Brown (Ohio) said he is trying to co-sponsor the amendment — but that Coburn and Vitter won’t let him. Coburn and Vitter are planning to offer the amendment during the Senate floor debate on healthcare reform.

“They’ve not said yes to allow me to be a co-sponsor,” Brown told The Hill on Thursday. “I’ve called their office four times. I’m proud of the public option, I think it would be great and we ought to join it and show the country how good it is. I think my interest may be more genuine than theirs, but I’d like to work with them if they’ll let me. If they just want to score partisan points, I still want to work with them.”

(UPDATE: I guess the bad publicity made Coburn and Vitter relent and make Brown a co-sponsor.)

Amusing. But Coburn submitted another amendment yesterday which was interesting, given the timing. Here’s the summary:

SA 2825. Mr. COBURN submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill H.R. 3590:

At the appropriate place, insert the following:

SEC. X. BUREAUCRAT LIMITATION.

For each new bureaucrat added to any department or agency of the Federal Government for the purpose of implementing the provisions of this Act (or any amendment made by this Act), the head of such department or agency shall ensure that the addition of such new bureaucrat is offset by a reduction of 1 existing bureaucrat at such department or agency.

This is an amendment that would fire random federal government employees. And it was submitted in the context of 15.4 million unemployed Americans, on the very day that the President convened a summit to address how to add jobs to the economy.

Of course, Tom Coburn is maybe the biggest hypocrite in the entire health care debate, a man who continues to talk about the dangers of government getting in between a patient and their doctor, when as a doctor he sterilized a woman without her consent.

The campaign grew more divisive with the emergence of details about the sterilization in 1990.

Dr. Coburn performed it during an operation to remove an ectopic pregnancy, a dangerous condition in which an embryo was growing in a fallopian tube. He removed the tube and tied off the other one, leaving the woman sterile.

The woman says she never consented to the procedure. Dr. Coburn said that he obtained oral permission for the sterilization, but that a nurse failed to obtain written consent. (Isn't that Birth Control? Didn't he really perform an abortion? What did he do with the fetus?)

http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/12/04/on-day-of-jobs-summit-tom-coburn-...

toniD's Ya Think?

Sanders, Brown Fighting Carper Public Option Compromises
By: David Dayen Friday December 4, 2009 10:37 am

Congress Daily (sub. reqd.) has some more on that public option Frankenstein’s Monster being cobbled together by Tom Carper and others. The silver lining in the report is that some of the strongest public option supporters are at least in the decision-making room:

Senate Democrats’ attempt to craft a public option proposal they can all agree on appears to be ramping up this week with moderates and liberals expected to intensify their effort to hash out differences in the next few days.

Sen. Thomas Carper, D-Del., is rolling out his public option compromise to senators this week and said discussions will intensify among Democrats from “the centrist, conservative wing of the party over to the liberal wing of our party.” [...]

Senate Majority Whip Durbin mentioned that Sens. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, and Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., participated in the public option conversations but was not sure who else did. “I just don’t know them. I am telling you, there are many different conversations under way,” Durbin said.

Brown and Sanders maintained a strong public option is necessary and indicated they were not willing participants in a compromise.

This could easily be hashed out by that gaggle of centrists and then forced upon the liberals. In this case, at least the liberals are given space to raise their objections at the outset.

The rest of the story is familiar. Joe Lieberman’s still threatening to filibuster, Olympia Snowe’s still in the mix, Ben Nelson still has to be placated on abortion, and nothing’s been decided.

Mary Landrieu’s rationale for why the public option, which skeptics like her consistently call a “sliver” of reform, is absurd:

Landrieu also reiterated a theme that’s become common among public option skeptics. “This might be the most important political compromise to be reached, but substantively, there are far more important issues.”

So why, if it’s such a minor issue, are several Democrats threatening to filibuster the bill if it’s not removed or weakened?

“Because we have basically sort of, I think, responded to this public relations campaign waged so fiercely on both sides,” Landrieu said. “But thankfully, as we have responded to this, that has grown up around us, we have also stayed focused on some of the more substantive issues.”

Really, so Mary Landrieu had to oppose the public option because of a public relations campaign that she alludes to being untrue. That’s nice to know.

Dick Durbin told Politico that there are other alternatives on the table, including one I thought was already in the bill:

The other sticking point for Democrats is the public option. Durbin said his caucus continues to search for an alternative that gets 60 votes, including a plan by Sen. Maria Cantwell for a quasi, state-based public option. Also on the table are plans by Sens. Tom Carper and Mary Landrieu.

If that alludes to Cantwell’s basic health plan, a decent policy but not at all a public option, that’s already in the bill. Confusing.

Durbin also acknowledges in the above-linked story that they would put whatever comes out on the public option into a manager’s amendment. That would enable them to combine it with some other changes to get the 60 votes.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/12/04/sanders-brown-fighting-carper-pub...

toniD's Ya Think?

do you know how he's responding? (his minions in media spouting talking points) he's saying that the accusation is a vendetta by the mafia who seek revenge because berlusconi has been such an effective champion of mafia prosecutions, sending so many mafiosi behind bars! the man has no shame - reminds me so much of bush/cheney combined

Kewl Nora, this is how I believe ...
Submitted by Ms_Anthrope on Thu, 11/26/2009 - 9:09am.
;) NORA OR smcgee43 up for a debate :)
IF One NEEDS the meat ... GIVE UP ALL EATING of Sacred Pigs, Cows, & Lambs & ...... ... if one MUST eat our fine feathered friends ... FOWLS SHOULD BE TREATED AS SACRED - GREAT FREE ROAMING LOCATIONS & NO UGLY PAINFUL DEATHS...
SACRED FOWLS FEED US -- TREAT AS SACRED, as FOWLS ARE!
I am of O Blood and crave meat {at times} NOT CHOCOLATE!
Now family grew up on ALL MEAT ... sister even went vegetarian, but she is EATTING meat as with YOUNG FRIEND {was near where I was born & lived in, NOW called Central CA area, now in AZ} was ONLY vegetarian (almost vegan) now is a MEAT of all kinds eater ... but maybe starting to change back...however :):(
...eek I should be cooking ... but no Wolves this time sniff sniff

Conservatives Debate: Is 'Teabagger' Their 'N-Word'?

"The first big day for this movement was Tax Day, April 15. And organizers had a gimmick. They asked people to send a tea bag to the Oval Office. One of the exhortations was "Tea Bag the Fools in D.C." A protester was spotted with a sign saying, "Tea Bag the Liberal Dems Before They Tea Bag You." So, conservatives started it: started with this terminology. But others ran with it and ran with it.

When I was growing up, in Ann Arbor, Mich., there was a little debate: Should school officials try to prevent black students from using the N-word? I don't believe the issue was ever settled. And this brings up the question of whether "teabagger" could be kind of a conservative N-word: to be used in the family, but radioactive outside the family."

Ahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahaha!

"Whassup, my bagga?!"

Braaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!

"this machine kills fascists"

Remember the 3 "B"s during the Bush admin I always talked about?

Bush
Blair Berlusconni

Bush is gone, Blair isn't having an easy time of it now, and it's Berlusconni's turn to get what is coming to him. I hope, for Italy's sake, that he gets thrown out of office.

Greece just routed their conservative ass this year. It's Italy's turn now.

toniD's Ya Think?

taozen
Submitted by gloryoski on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 10:48am.
1. I already said I gave up pig and cow and all I/we get is grief from Ms_A (and you to a lesser extent and by implication) for not giving up chicken. FYI, I was a vegetarian (not a vegan--so sorry) for approximately 6 years and a small seafood vegetarian for about 9 more. Shit happens. None of your goddamn business what.

*** ***

Submitted by gloryoski on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 10:48am.
Submitted by Ms_Anthrope on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 11:53am.
re: I already said I gave up pig and cow and all I/we get is grief from Ms_A
... W R O N G ! ...
I SAID I EAT CHICKEN/FOUL {for they can be seasoned to taste like darn near EVERYTHNG - so that is HOW I STOPPED EATING LAMB, PIG, BEEF.
THIS IS WHAT ANGERS ME:
I SAID SOME, AS ME WITH "O" BLOOD, CRAVE meat (more than choc) THE ONLY THING I THEN SAID WAS TO HONOUR CHICKEN, give them FREE-SPACE {since no longer used for PIGS & LAMBS & COWS) and give them A SACRED DEATH for they are SACRED!
...
You mispeak and then abruse me - "thus turn about is fair play".
I DON'T START THE FIGHT. BUT I WILL RESPOND AND DEFEND MYSELF.
NOW I SEE WHAT LIES WITHIN YOU, IN TRUTH!

*** ***

MsA: Bullshit. That was not all you said. The words MEAT MURDER (referring inclusively to eating birds and in all caps of course) was used. I am not going to take up my time to try to find that link to refresh your selective memory about that particular "I am good; you all, not so much" tirade. In general, I respect your commitment (maybe in some ways you are a better person than I am) but as a political tactic shaming has limited utility and should be used judiciously. When it is accompanied by self-aggrandizement, it has the effect of alienating most people from the causes and opinions you espouse. Information, not brow-beating is the key--perhaps info given in a form that does not take up to five readings to understand. If you don't know that by now, it's quite possible that you don't know what "LIES WITHIN [anybody] IN TRUTH."

*** ***
TRUTH:
What I said!

Kewl Nora, this is how I believe ...
Submitted by Ms_Anthrope on Thu, 11/26/2009 - 9:09am.
;) NORA OR smcgee43 up for a debate :)
IF One NEEDS the meat ... GIVE UP ALL EATING of Sacred Pigs, Cows, & Lambs & ...... ... if one MUST eat our fine feathered friends ... FOWLS SHOULD BE TREATED AS SACRED - GREAT FREE ROAMING LOCATIONS & NO UGLY PAINFUL DEATHS...
SACRED FOWLS FEED US -- TREAT AS SACRED, as FOWLS ARE!
I am of O Blood and crave meat {at times} NOT CHOCOLATE!
Now family grew up on ALL MEAT ... sister even went vegetarian, but she is EATTING meat as with YOUNG FRIEND {was near where I was born & lived in, NOW called Central CA area, now in AZ} was ONLY vegetarian (almost vegan) now is a MEAT of all kinds eater ... but maybe starting to change back...however :):(
...eek I should be cooking ... but no Wolves this time sniff sniff

Love sayin' that!

Hi Uncle Maury! Thanks for the money and the herb!

further elsewhere!

How do you pay your wife off and take blame for hitting a fire hydrant while your wife is chasing you out of the house with a club over a variety of affairs and then turn around and pretend that you are really a couple?

I wish him all the luck and I know he's worked what seems to be miracles getting that blasted ball into the hole but... still...

who does he think he's kidding?

and when will the Taiwanees make their anime technology more available. Ms_A's sure would be a lot more entertaining that way ;)

The Senate may vote in the next few days on an amendment by Sen. Ben Nelson to add the House Stupak language back into the Senate health care bill -- and we've got to speak out now to stop it.

That's why I signed the petition Senator Barbara Boxer has launched at www.FightForWomensHealth.com, calling for the removal of the Stupak Amendment from any bill that reaches the President's desk.

We succeeded in keeping the Stupak Amendment out of the initial Senate health care reform bill, but we knew our opponents wouldn't give up easily -- and they're already back.

Please join me and Senator Boxer at www.FightForWomensHealth.com today!

Thank you!

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

MMRules

A fantastic Gentleman gave FOR TRUTH'S SAKE the man's name which I could not remember to CRANK BAIT & CHUBBY BUBBA since as YOU they kept saying I was wrong!

I PROVED YOU ARE WRONG AND MISREPRESENTING ME, which you are using as they did the term "SELECTIVE MEMORY" where I PROVE, YOU WERE WRONG!

Then some wonder why {to use Chubby Bubba's word this time}
I am such a BITCH aka WOMAN WITH ATTITUDE!

I have dealt with SOME HERE stating WRONG WORDS for some here & ME, for years - and I don't want to waste my time for I am working on things for the future!

BUT "YOU" DO NOT LIKE TRUTHS OF THIS SOCIETY, SO YOU BLAME ME... So Sad for ALL concerned!

Oh, you wanna go? Fine, I've got an hour, give or take according the traffic. Not going to waste my own time on it though.

There was a post at almost the same place as the oldest post that you quote in terms of meat eating that said "ALL MEAT MURDER IS ----[some negative adjective].")I didn't imagine it. It was there.

I must admit I did not understand the part about you eating chicken but here's the thing: you do not write clearly--on purpose. And you scream. All the time. It keeps people from wanting to understand. If what you want to get across is so important to you and especially if is often hostile in tone towards the reader(s), at least for gods-sake say it clearly. The solution to being told you are repeating is not to say the same thing incomprehensibly.

As far as "all fowls" being treated as sacred"--yes, ideally, but there are zoning laws and there are high costs at certain markets (which we should be boycotting anyhow)and there is a recession. So again, if you are able to live where you have room and do free range now without a middleman and we aren't, how is that information even relevant except to prove you better than us? If you are talking about the ("Utopian") future--"Well, duh!" Again (mostly) preaching to the converted.

Also I guess if I thought that "committing murder" on a chicken was tantamount to "committing murder" on a human being, I wouldn't do it, no matter what blood type I had and no matter how they lived while they lived. And I guess if you don't feel the two are equal, you might want to find less melodramatic and more precise vocabulary to use. And don't hide behind pantheistic/deistic spirituality unless you are prepared to tell me you sacrifice humans whose meat you crave but they are free range while they live and you honor their spirit.

Then there was yesterday where everyone else who was ENTIRELY opposed to the escalation was posting links or at least giving valuable pointers to information for those that they thought needed convincing of their point of view. You OTOH were just screaming--how you and your hero daddy were better and braver than "some here" and "WTP." That is the kind of shit I am talking about when I say "self-aggrandizement."

Just a quick note to let you know that Russ is scheduled to appear on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos on Sunday to discuss Afghanistan. Be sure to check your local listings.

Russ's call for a flexible timetable for withdrawal is yet another example of the principled stands he takes every day, and an important reminder of why we need him standing up for us in the Senate. With two opponents already ramping up their rhetoric and distorting Russ's record, it's crucial that our campaign has the resources necessary to respond to the attacks and highlight Russ's work on issues like Afghanistan, fiscal responsibility, and healthcare reform.

Don't you dare. That's what your girl Hillary used to do and it was infuriating and embarrassing. (I know; you didn't really like her either; that's not why you mention her frequently enough that you might as well be her stalker; there must be some other reason--some TRUTH that I am just too brainwashed to understand.)

And no I don't turn in my va-jay-jay and get classed with CB and CB (who are not always wrong and at least you can usually understand them) just because I don't think the way you do. So tough titty toenails on that one.

Won't stop texting me about how space aliens look like owls and how he has a recording of them talking.

Poor guy. Can't hang with his friends or even have a beer at his house anymore. He's still fighting to not end up like Tiger Woods. I think he's completely mad now. Nothing but giberish coming from him.

Merry Xmas everyone! Happy Hellidays!!!

?????? - Whats up Ms_Anthrope

YOU MADE THE MISREPRESENTATON, NOT I.

Now you are trying to "delude" the issue. If you don't get what I said, perhaps you are meant not to ... FOR SOME HERE DO "GET IT" ... and that is alright by me.

...REMEMBER why:
Then some wonder why {to use Chubby Bubba's word this time}
I am such a BITCH aka WOMAN WITH ATTITUDE!

I have dealt with SOME HERE stating WRONG WORDS for some here & ME, for years - and I don't want to waste my time ...!

The Sunday Show Line-Ups
Eric Kleefeld | December 4, 2009, 4:01PM

Secretary of State Clinton and Defense Secretary Gates at Afghanistan hearing.

Here are the line-ups for the Sunday talk shows this weekend:

• ABC, This Week: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI).

• CBS, Face The Nation: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.

• CNN, State Of The Union: National Security Adviser Gen. James Jones, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-AZ), former Gov. Mitt Romney (R-MA).

• Fox News Sunday: Gen. David Petraeus, Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-IL), Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX).

• NBC, Meet The Press: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ).

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/the-sunday-show-line-ups-31.p...

toniD's Ya Think?

And David gows with McPain!

toniD's Ya Think?

Specter To Lieberman, Collins: Reread The Fine Print On The Public Option
Brian Beutler | December 4, 2009, 12:49PM

Sen. Arlen Specter (D-PA)

I just watched an interesting public option colloquy of sorts between Sen. Arlen Specter (D-PA) on the one hand and, Sens. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) and a newly in-the-mix Susan Collins (R-ME) on the other. It was the first time I've seen a senator call out his colleagues, however politely, on their misrepresentations of the public option.

The trio spoke at an event in support of a cost containment amendment to the health care bill that they hope to introduce shortly. About 15 minutes in, though, Specter, who's tacked significantly to the left since he switched into the Democratic party, put his colleagues on the spot about their public option opposition.

"I continue to support a robust public option," Specter said. "There are differences on that, and my two colleagues have expressed their own reservations."

"This bill may be so good, look so good, to Senator Lieberman that he may be willing to make some accommodations."

Lieberman and Collins both demurred.

"I do not support...a government owned, government run insurance company," Collins said.

"I have only to look at the experience of my own state in establishing a government run plan to see the problems that arise."

Collins was referring to the Dirigo health agency, which provides subsidized insurance to poor people in Maine who don't quite qualify for Medicaid.

"I think we have learned a lot from the Maine plan," Specter retorted. "We know what not to do. We're not going to adopt a Maine plan. That experience will stand us in good stead. We won't make the same mistake."

Specter went on: "And when Senator Lieberman talks about single payer, I think he's putting his finger on the pulse of it. That's what people have concluded [but] the public option isn't single payer, and it is not going to add to the deficit, it's going to be a level playing field. So I would like everyone to read the fine print and [for my colleagues] to re-read the fine print."

Burn!

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/specter-to-lieberman-collins-...

toniD's Ya Think?

It is either still there or it has been taken out in the meantime.

If it's still there, I will find it eventually. Not gonna stress about it though--too much else going on.

And doesn't change anything else I said. "Maybe you weren't meant to" would wash if MANY did not also have the same problem with your writing, including when there is no reason to think you would be sending secret messages. Since they do, maybe you should look to yourself.

SOS Clinton ... I come to their aid... CUZ NO DEM need to be judged unfairly ... with SELECTIVE MEMORY ... thus I MUST speak The Truth!

Pres Kennedy (as said before) had affairs & the BAY of PIG & ETC...

NO ONE IS PERFECT!
All I am saying is Pres Clinton left a surplus of $ & SOS Clinton tried to do HEALTHCARE but "rethugs" with DEMS HELP annihilated this "hope". NOW SOS IS TOTALLY IN Obama's CAMP.

...now all is bending over for the "rethugs" again.

PUMA was brought up by RETHUGS, trying to weaken Hillary & they did! rethugs were AFRAID of the Clintons & rethugs won then & again now!

Have a great evening.

The last installment of Monk is tonight.

And don't forget Moyers.

Later

toniD's Ya Think?

I find most of what you say as irrelevant or superficial,
BUT WHATEVER - 4 i care not.

... to give you a "heads up" ... I use MURDER especially ABOUT THE MURDERS TO WOLVES, POLAR BEARS, WHALES, DOLPHINS, & more, yet, I did say recenly I did not like that CRAB Video... I have mentioned {in past} OVERFISHING, though.

I have to go exercize for an hour and so I will "battle" later {or hopefully not}.

(i.e, this clause which is not one) can kiss my "as irrelevant and superficial" ass.

I will be skipping your posts from now on since many are, as I said above:

1. Low info and link deficient.
2. Sometimes completely incomprehensible.
3. Repetitious.
4. Shrill. (And I do not use that word lightly with fellow lefties, but you've more than earned it.)

And so I won't be missing anything.

Online Writers Now Have Greater Shot Of Winning Pulitzer
By Drew Grant on Dec 02, 2009 04:30 PM
http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/awards/online_writers_now_have_gre...

Good news to all those Woodward and Bernstein bloggers: the Pulitzer Prize committee has now opened up the requirements for winning an award in journalism to make online reporters eligible for the prestigious honor.
Now "entries for journalism awards must be based on material coming from a text-based United States newspaper or news site that publishes at least weekly during the calendar year," according to the revised Pulitzer rules. This change is a baby step from last year's eligibility requirements, which read that nominees from online organizations could be considered, but they, like their print counterparts, had to be "primarily dedicated to original news reporting and coverage of ongoing events."
Considering the varied and sometimes esoteric nature of online publications, the rules for this year consider the writer and their piece over the publication they work for, according to Sig Gissler of the Pulitzer Prize Committee. This is definitely a boon to all those investigative bloggers out there who don't yet write for pubs like The Huffington Post.

The Pulitzer Prize Board Eases Eligibility for Online-Only Entries
In 2010, the competition will continue to allow a full range of online content, such as video, databases and interactive graphics, in nearly all categories. Two photography categories will continue to restrict entries to still images.
The revised rules, entry forms, and guidelines on the submission of entries can be found on the Pulitzer Prize Web site (www.pulitzer.org). The deadline for entries is Feb. 1, 2010.

...wouldn't it look good on the mast head.

I believe we could have some contenders here at Sederville...
Submitted by CeeCee on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 6:26pm.
Online Writers Now Have Greater Shot Of Winning Pulitzer
By Drew Grant on Dec 02, 2009 04:30 PM
*******

Do you have a link for that post ?

Not for me but,for others here that can write well..
Thanks..

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

MMRules

CeeCee.. :)

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

MMRules

More than 100 people have been killed in an explosion at a Russian nightclub, Russian police said tonight.

There were no immediate reports on the possible cause of the blast in the Russian city of Perm, near the Ural mountains.

A spokeswoman for the regional emergency situations ministry confirmed that there were many wounded, but did not give numbers.

Perm is about 700 miles east of Moscow.

The blast comes one week after Chechen separatists claimed responsibility for the bombing of a Moscow to St Petersburg express train, which killed at least 26 people and injured scores of others.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/04/russia-disco-explosion-perm

Sorry but, when
"So tough titty toenails on that one".

gets banded about the blog,I think it's time for me to step in and,post some Bootsy Collins Funk.. ;)

Bootsy Collins - Jingle Belz (AKA Jingle Bells)

http://hypem.com/#/track/970658/Bootsy+Collins-Jingle+Belz+%28AKA+Jingle...

Happy Holidays ! :)

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

MMRules

...sorry, MMRules.

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/awards/online_writers_now_have_gre...

Won't stop texting me about how space aliens look like owls and how he has a recording of them talking.

That's nuts. Everyone knows the greys don't really look like owls, it's just the brain-clouding implants that make you think you saw owls after they've abducted you.
______________________________

This is the sort of thing that cheers me these days:
At BoingBoing: Workshop: Finding medicinal herbs growing in sidewalk cracks
(I am not suggesting that this is a viable alternative to health care and insurance reform!)

http://spontaneousvegetation.net/projects/

remember...just because you may be psychotic, doesn't mean the little green man in your microwave accepts PayPal....

watching msnbc tonight i learned that obama kicked off his jobs campaign today. coincendentally, the jobs numbers were released this morning. surprisingly, they were way better than expected. if you don't know it, the numbers have a built in correction mechanism where the next month out, the previous months numbers can be "corrected". draw your own conclusions.

And,last show tonight at 9pm Pacific-USA Network..

Just saying.. :)

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

MMRules

Thanks for putting up link.. :)

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

MMRules

-

-

http://www.samsedershow.com/node/5526

1. Low info and link deficient.

& why is that? I respect those here. UNLESS I HAVE SOMETHING MOST WOULD NOT HAVE - I REFUSE TO REPEAT, save for others' POSTS that are either PETITIONS OR IMPORTANT INFO that SHOULD be repeated. MOST INFO HERE I HAVE ALREADY READ, whereas I do not have Krugman and that is why toni's POSTS are NEW to me.
THOSE media stories I do not have, I usually thank whomever.

NOW let me reiterate - AGAIN for oh so many times since I have been here {since the beginning}: I believe most have read the TV or "net" or PAPERS & have the days knowledge. I have so MANY ON ONLINE Papers & I personaly talk & read & write with people & GROUPS WORLDWIDE. I feel I would be treating the people HERE with disrespect if I took their info WITHOUT SHOWING THEY WERE THE ORIGINAL POST!

WHEN I AM ADDRESSING another one's "story" I PUT THEIR NAME, DATE, AND TIME ... TO GIVE THE ORIGINAL POSTER credit. Then IF anyone is interested THEY go to THE ORIGINAL POST, which has the original LINK. EYE-ROLL 2 U.

AGAIN you show you evidently are a "confused" individual.

BTW 2-4 is just redundant.

*** ***
Submitted by gloryoski on Fri, 12/04/2009 - 6:11pm.
(i.e, this clause which is not one) can kiss my "as irrelevant and superficial" ass.

I will be skipping your posts from now on since many are, as I said above:

1. Low info and link deficient.
2. Sometimes completely incomprehensible.
3. Repetitious.
4. Shrill. (And I do not use that word lightly with fellow lefties, but you've more than earned it.)

And so I won't be missing anything.
*** ***

BTW DITTO for I too will be skipping your posts from now on...
JUST DON'T mention falsehoods about the Clintons or "UNFAIRLY ATTACK" anyone save the rethugs. Rethugs are not important to me.

*** ***