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Sir Real - '12 Steps' Debunked
Submitted by Sir Real on Wed, 03/11/2009 - 3:35pm.
The '12 Steps' Debunked
by Joe Berenbaum
Here is the full text of from one of the links found on the official Alcoholics Anonymous site.
http://www.aa.org/em24doc6.html
I'll comment on the usefulness and accuracy of both the steps and the additional text.
The relative success of the A.A. program seems to be due to the fact that an alcoholic who no longer drinks has an exceptional faculty for "reaching" and helping an uncontrolled drinker.
Yes, the perceived, or alleged success, is due to the cult-like indoctrination of new members into AA, and into the particular belief system. If new people were not being assimilated all the time, AA would disappear altogether. For this reason new members are told that they must go to meetings for life, and must in turn "help" new people themselves. AA's belief system states that one can only stay sober with the help of God and AA. Thus sobriety, in a wonderful example of circular logic, is held to be "proof" of AA's "success".
In simplest form, the A.A. program operates when a recovered alcoholic passes along the story of his or her own problem drinking, describes the sobriety he or she has found in A.A., and invites the newcomer to join the informal Fellowship.
Not exactly. In its simplest form, the AA program operates when someone who may have a drink problem is given a lot of untrue information and is invited, or forced, to attend meetings at a vulnerable point in their lives at which time they will be more impressionable. They will be encouraged to stop thinking for themselves with slogans like "My best thinking got me here"- implication; your best thinking is only capable of getting you into trouble, so don't think anymore, just do what we suggest (tell you to do). They will be encouraged to adopt the set of false beliefs that underlies the AA program and philosophy. Some people will adopt this set of beliefs and become AA members.
The heart of the suggested program of personal recovery is contained in Twelve Steps describing the experience of the earliest members of the Society:
Actually the heart of the AA program is contained in a set of untrue statements that are held to be true, such as but not limited to;
"Alcoholism is an incurable disease",
"No-one recovers outside of AA",
and suchlike.
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
No-one is powerless over alcohol. Alcohol is an inanimate substance, usually inside a bottle or sitting in a glass. The act of drinking requires a choice to be made, and muscles to be used to move the alcohol upwards to the face, towards the mouth, the mouth then has to opened, the lips arranged around the top of the glass or opening of the bottle to contrive a seal so that the alcohol does not pour down the front of the drinker, the arm and wrist then pour the alcohol into the mouth, the mouth and throat them swallow the alcohol. Although the AA program may try to disguise this sequence of events or fudge the issue, drinking alcohol, like mowing your lawn, is a deliberate act. Most peoples' lives are unmanageable to some extent, so this is not really meaningful. Unless seriously unmanageable is what is meant- well someone with a drink problem may well have neglected areas of their life, so they should stop drinking, obviously. Problem solved. Step 1 is bunk.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
A capital P indicates religion has entered the room. We do not need religion to control our behavior any more than we need a priest telling us how to live and who to have sex with and when. Someone with a drink problem who is checking out recovery programs is obviously not insane, since they are seeking information and help. It is ironic that if they go to AA for help, the information they receive will mostly be untrue, and they will be encouraged to form a pointless dependence on meetings and the supernatural.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Thus is religious indoctrination in the name of sobriety. It is far better to take responsibility for your own behavior than to surrender your will to a supernatural entity. This sort of nonsense may not have looked too eccentric in the 1930's but in 1999 we can do better than this. We have programs that actually work, and without indoctrination or superstition.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
There is no need for a moral inventory. It isn't a question of morality- unless you have the appropriate religious hangups, of course. This step can give you those hangups. People can spend months anguishing away over writing this thing when they could instead be getting proper help.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
More moralizing nonsense. "Wrongs" indeed! Take someone with a behavioral problem and tell them in an underhand way that they're bad. Just think, these people could be getting good help instead of this.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
God doesn't remove defects of character because there is no such thing as a "defect of character". We are all humans and are all imperfect. And that's the way its going to stay. Problem drinking isn't based on character, it is a self-defeating behavior.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
The original version of step 7 actually said "on our knees", but leaving that in would have rather given the game away. This is nonsense. Asking God to change our behavior for us is primitive, medieval, superstitious bunk and has no place in a recovery process. Just think- people could be learning how to evaluate and change their behavior instead of this religious mumbling nonsense.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
As was pointed out earlier, the distinction between people we have harmed and people who have harmed us is totally fudged by this step. The guilt-inducing programming here looks at harm only one way, as if we did it all. In reality in many cases far more harm was done TO us than BY us- I know of many women of whom this is true. But the self-undermining slant of the program takes no real interest in our mental well-being, seeking only to direct us to our own sense of guilt, or create it for us. What is there in the steps for a victim of multiple violent abuse? Oh yes, looking for their part in it. Very healthy! Although the awareness of the harm we have caused is useful, it is looked at here in a totally one-directional and self-blaming way that is not conducive to balance or mental health.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Notice that conspicuous by its absence is any caution that this process could injure US. But then we are supposed to have totally abandoned the "self" by now anyway so there is nothing left to harm. Notice also that there is nothing here about any repair or even consideration of harm that may have been done TO us. The idea is of course that we are wholly responsible for everything bad that ever happened to us, so no need to even consider such an angle. It is one-sided, self-hating, and guilt-reinforcing and to stipulate that amends should be made in this way is unhelpful.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
There is something rather unhealthy about admitting you are wrong every time you realize it. It would make more sense to say "and when we were wrong, we promptly made a note of it"! This is probably written this way to counteract the tendencies of self-justifying people with boundary problems who like to push others around and define peoples' realities for them. Maybe if AA members actually DID this step, for real, AA itself would change dramatically. Who knows?
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
Oh dear, this is just so silly and sad. This is RELIGION, folks. So as a useful part of a recovery program for addiction, this is a total irrelevance. It is simply there to maintain the intensity of the religious experience. Bunk.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
Or, more accurately, "Having had a hallucination under the influence of our medication, we tried to universalize our "hot flush" experience to others and convince then that this was necessary (quite an achievement) and then we tried to make this program actually work in our life. Unfortunately the program is ineffective for anything other than religious conversion and indoctrination so we spent most of our remaining years in a state of deep depression, which we carefully avoided mentioning in either of our books on AA, Alcoholics Anonymous, and 12 Steps and 12 Traditions." Step 12 is dishonest bunk.
Newcomers are not asked to accept or follow these Twelve Steps in their entirety if they feel unwilling or unable to do so.
Newcomers are encouraged to study the program literature which repeats many times how the steps are the only way to recover. They are encouraged to attend many meetings in which the same stuff is read out, over and over, every time.
They will usually be asked to keep an open mind, to attend meetings at which recovered alcoholics describe their personal experiences in achieving sobriety, and to read A.A. literature describing and interpreting the A.A. program.
Yes, newcomers to AA will need an open mind if they are to assimilate a program that makes no sense whatsoever. They will also need to be in meetings often so that the indoctrination can happen while they are surrounded by people who already believe it. Testimony and confession will be used as in the Oxford Group- to make it sound like there is something valid going on. They will need to be reading the indoctrination material regularly for it to "take".
A.A. members will usually emphasize to newcomers that only problem drinkers themselves, individually, can determine whether or not they are in fact alcoholics.
Some will say this, but I'm not at all sure that the word "usually" is accurate. Some will state that no-one ever comes to AA by accident, and that any drinking problem means one is an "alcoholic".
At the same time, it will be pointed out that all available medical testimony indicates that alcoholism is a progressive illness, that it cannot be cured in the ordinary sense of the term, but that it can be arrested through total abstinence from alcohol in any form.
"All available medical testimony" -what incredible nonsense! Who wrote this stuff? This is totally untrue. There is no medical evidence that shows conclusively that "alcoholism" (not a medical word, it is usually called problem drinking or alcohol dependance) is an illness or disease at all, let alone a progressive one. Since it is not an illness, the concept of "cure" is redundant. Alcohol dependance is not an illness; it is a behavior and behavior can be changed. Everyone in AA who gets sober changes their behavior. Everyone who gets sober anywhere changes their behavior. The incurable illness myth is simply to get people to stay in AA for fear of what would happen otherwise (cult characteristic- terrible things will happen if you ever dare to leave...). But since it is a myth, their continued attendance for years after getting sober is a sad and pointless waste of their time, and serves only to keep the program virus alive so that it can be passed on to others (who don't need it either).
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"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."
total crap
I have been in AA for almost 30 years...what he says is untrue is crap. No one says you have to go for life. In fact we say our hats are off to you if you recover on your own and many do. Some stay sober thru church some thru other means. AA is just a way.
If you are alcoholic, your disease is progressive.
Like I say about abortion...If you are against it don't have one.
If you are against AA don't go there. Try other ways.
om mani padme hum
Thanks for your comments, mhappenow & MMR...
I entered drug & alcohol treatment and didn't know what A.A., nor the 12-steps, were all about. When I mentioned my doubts that I had a disease, it felt like I stepped on the 'third rail.' The counselors went on the attack and said I was "in denial."
I know that it works for some people. And, I know it doesn't make sense to others. But, the fact that 93 percent of all drug & alcohol treatment is based on this program seems a little one-sided. And, the fact that oftentimes as a condition of parole, or as a result of a DUI, people are mandated into the program, seems like a violation of the separation of church and state.
And, the fact that it is being teached across the world ... with its evangelical overtones concerns me a bit, too.
It seems to be a subtle far-right, religious/political-type, social policy infiltration & movement... At least in my view, despite whether it works as a program for some people.
The media seems to go along with the whole message.
It's what Dr. Drew teaches on the shows, "Celebrity Rehab" and "Sober House."
I just don't get how the same 12-steps can be used for overeating, narcotics, cutting, gambling, over-shopping, codependency (96 percent of the American population is codependent according to recent studies) and a ton of other self-destructive behaviors... It doesn't seem to be based on science.
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What's Good About A.A.?
What's Not Good About A.A.?
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The Heresy of the Twelve Steps
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I agree about the view on abortion that if you don't like abortions, then don't have one.
I just don't like that, in my case, once I entered drug & alcohol treatment, I was forced into A.A. and 'working' the 12-steps, and I was required to get an A.A. 'sponsor.'
I was forced to suck up and grasp this illogical, self-criticism, powerlessness type of message ... as this was required by the treatment center, otherwise, my insurance was going to leave me on the hook for the entire bill of the program.
I felt trapped & somewhat appalled that this '
'12-step' stuff was the best a bunch of educated professionals had for me as far as treatment for my addictions.
And, the fact that people who get a DUI are forced to attend a certain number of A.A. meetings & admit they are an 'alcoholic' prior to every time they speak, seems unfair, also.
...Not to mention prisoners being denied parole if they don't complete a 12-step program.
It almost seems barbaric for the 21st century.
For Those Who Still Wish to Go -- AA Attendees' Mental Health and Survival Guide
Note: Obviously, my views were derived as a result of what I experienced during January and February 2009 when I was in treatment.
Other people's views are, of course, equally valid.
And, I respect them.
I, personally, do not like the approach I see taken on "Sober House" on VH1, and I do not like some of the material in Christopher Kennedy Lawford's new book, "Moments of Clarity."
My wife, on the other hand, loved the book & thinks that my views on the '12 Steps' are merely a result of having been put through the Sir Real filter, ... although she is supported of me attending
SMART Recovery meetings instead of A.A., now that I've 'graduated' from my outpatient program.
With love and sincerity,
Sir Real
but it does work very well for some people with all those
addictions. It is a matter of using the discipline of humility. Turning over to god simply means it is not me....I love the program but am not a zealot about it. why dont you give me a skype and we can talk about it. im also mhappenow on skype.
om mani padme hum
okay, mhappenow...
I realize I need to tone down my animosity towards A.A. and 12-Steps.
I realize that it is helpful for some.
I am grateful to have read books such as Rational Recovery ... and also
"The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure." These books helped me feel like I wasn't going crazy when none of the '12 Step' stuff made sense. I went into a treatment program to become empowered, not helpless.
Quite honestly, mhappenow, I don't know how to Skype.
I appreciate your offer to talk and would love to do so.
And, I am glad you are not absolutely inflexible regarding anyone who challenges some of the A.A. approach. I'm glad you love the program. And, you saying this...adds to my resolve to try and tone down my emotions regarding my disillusionment with the program.
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I do not attribute the treatment program so much as I attribute what I learned when I 'googled' (alternatives to A.A.) for help in my 'kicking' drugs and alcohol. But, the treatment program frustrated me enough to seek out those alternative answers, so I'm thankful to them for that.
(The book, Rational Recovery, was a huge help.)
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Ironically, even as I am about 75 days sober from drugs & alcohol after 26 years of abuse, my e-mail address is beernow@cox.net
mhappenow,... Perhaps, if you have time, you could contact me that way until I figure out how to Skype.
It seems probably that you could be of help to me regarding addiction, treatment, etc... However, I'm not sure how I could be of help to you.
I really appreciate your time and thoughts very much.
The discipline of Humility!
That is a great start for getting control. In my experience a body cleanse some neurotransmitter repair nutrients like http:// www.nerosciencesinc.com run by Dr. Kellerman has great nutrients to help the recovering person feel better. My friend DR.Alan Pressman (grammercy Health (212 228 5600) is very good with rebuilding the body after years of substance abuse. I was involved with talk therapiy years ago. I told them i just want to feel better. I sought out super nutrition which had saved me once before and when I went to the Talk Therapy Center they said I was replacing vitamins for dope. Then they said have some more coffee and a cookie. At that time I was using cannabis and the therapist$ were very upset with me, said I wasn't trying. Instinctively I knew the grass was helping me but was I bad? I had the beginnings of Glaucoma and it was helping me. it wasnt about getting high,it was about feeling better physicaly . I got better and I respect any approach to getting in balance. After years of looking for answers I "prayed" for better friends and Docors to come into my life. After that the Real answer came to me. DR. Fu Zhang master herbalist and accupunture in NYC. he combined empathetic listening with lots of physical improvements with the accupuncture and herbal detox. I went to him first for the eye pressure but after a while ,when my liver was detoxed and my angers came to the surface he became my spiritual grandfather. my BP came down to 60/100 and then TAOZEN was born!, reborn. The Hindhu thing remember who you really are.
Thanks, taozen...
I couldn't get your link to work, though.
Is this a similar link? (below)
https://www.neurorelief.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id...
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I was listening to a Candace Pert CD on opiate receptors, etc... called How to Feel Go(o)d, ... I think it was called, last night. And I heard her mention something about what you mentioned above. And, I had made a mental note to look into it. I almost think I read recently how the Dalai Lama was really getting interested in this stuff, too.
Your story, taozen, is quite interesting.
I found that after going to a ton of A.A. meetings that I no longer thought about smoking weed. All I could think about was how great a tall glass of ice cold beer would taste. :)
SR
Great to see another POV.
Sir Real Check your E mail
taozen t one.
Sir Real, I can say I agree with you...& well spoken ...yet...
...it is good for some ... like my year older sister ...on it for many many years... gets to be flown about to speak to other addicts...about addictions...
...but I feel it is a "need" that is fulfilled due to MANY REASONS...
...an addition to NEED "another" addiction...
IMHO
...but then again we ALL NEED an addiction...I would say my addiction is TO SAVE The Earth & The WILD & The WILDLIFE & The STRAYS: NON-Human & Human = to care for something other than me = a "calling".
IMHO ;) *Poof*
Ms-Anthrope " to care for something other than me"
I support you in all your endeavours! whats the thirteenth step in the 12 step program? start your own program.
The Great Link To Neuroscience Dr Kellerman
submitted by Sir Real on thur,003/12/2009-1:48pm
SR you found the correct link. off to the races
https://www.neurorelief.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id...
- This is the man I was talking about. I hope everyone checks this out. This is not just for Drug and alcohol issues. ADD type symptoms,heavy metal toxicity,OCD
Travacore ,one of his products I used and had good results. after six monthes I was finished. http://drpressman.com introduced me to this Place and he is equally as knowledgeable.
Thanks...
Thanks for all the information you provided me here & in the e-mail you sent me, taozen. I will look much further into it. There are some interesting arcticles by Dr. Pressman, for sure. Seeing Dr. Fu Zhang may prove difficult for me as I am in Tucson, Arizona, & presently don't expect to be on the east coast any time soon. The neurorelief site has some very useful information, too. I'm going to have to devote some time to it, as well.
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Thanks for the support, Air Ball.
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And, thanks for the feedback & reflection, Ms_Anthrope.
What you said makes quite a lot of sense & sounds intuitively correct,
as well.
I can relate...
...my sister-in-law is an alcoholic. She has been for as long as I have known her. Compounding her troubles she was with my brother for about four years when he left her pregnant for a younger woman who also was pregnant. I stepped in to help raise my niece who is now 15 years old. The last two or three years my sis-in-law has been in and out of rehab and attending AA when she is out on her own. Problem with AA is the God component which she regards as "superstition." While I am a spiritual person, my problem with AA is the relinguishing the development of one's own God-given will and strength to overcome adversity.
Anyway, the last time my sis-in-law was in rehab, I saw an episode of Oprah with Christiane Northrup, M.D. during which she was promoting her book, "The Wisdom of Menopause." During the episode, she was saying things that rang true and led me to think alcohol is satisfying a deficiency in the body's chemistry or is the body's craving of those who overindulge. When my sis is sober and doing well she has an insatiable sweet tooth; and, she has trouble sleeping. She also deals with depression.
In the book's Chapter 7, it reads:
"If You Are A True Carbohydrate Addict"
"Women who grew up in alcoholic or chaotic family systems may have brain and body chemistry that is overly sensitive to the effects of food, and particularly the neurochemical known as serotonin. Serotonin is released in the brain quite rapidly when you eat refined-carbohydrate-rich foods, such as most breakfast cereals or cookies. True carbohydrate addicts connot stop after eating a few cookies or potato chips. They don't seem to have normal satiety mechanism in place, most likely because food is being used as a drug to soothe emotional pain..."
In a paragraph on the previous page, Northrup writes: "Alcohol is nothing but sugar in a form that is so absorbable that its effects are felt within minutes in the brain...interferes with estrogen metabolism and causes almost immediate hormonal imbalance."
Further, I had a male friend who also was an alcoholic and bipolar. He controlled his conditions with an organic diet with vitamins and supplements and therapy. He's pretty strict about it because when he eats processed food or has an occasional McD's meal he can "fall off the wagon."
Unfortunately, my sister-in-law does not have a fond regard for therapists either. I believe she has deeper issues she does not want to confront. So when someone doesn't want to get well is that a disease? Or does the disease orchestrate your system so you don't want to get well?
I have always heard AA is effective for a small group of people and its significance is due to a great marketing plan and promotion. But if it helps someone, its a good thing.
_______________________________________________________
Estimates of AA's Effectiveness
Biasing factors, such as "motivation," are a serious problem, but it does seem possible to draw at least tentative conclusions about the effectiveness of Alcoholics Anonymous. A good starting point is AA's most recently announced membership figures. As of January 1, 1996, AA claimed 1.251 million members in the U.S. and Canada,vi while there were approximately 218 million individuals 18 years of age and over in the two countries at that time. Taking the ARF estimates of the percentages of alcohol abusers and alcohol-dependent persons and multiplying them by total population figures yields a total of roughly 22 million individuals with alcohol problems in 1996; doing the same calculations using the NIAAA percentages yields a total of roughly 16.13 million persons. Taking these as high and low estimates of the number of alcohol abusers, as of the date of the last avail-able AA membership figures, somewhere between 5.7% and 7.7% of U.S. and Canadian "alcoholics" belonged to AA. And the percentage of those who will reach the AA goal of lifelong abstinence is much lower than that.
A noticeable feature of AA is that a large number of its members have been in the organization for a relatively short time. Based on my attendance at AA meetings in San Francisco in the late 1980s, I would estimate that over 50% of those attending meetings in that city at that time were members for less than one year and, in fact, that a majority were members for only a few months. The situation appears to have change little in recent years. (The discrepancy between my observations and AA's claim that only 27% of its members have less than one-year's abstinence is probably accounted for by AA's astoundingly high dropout rate; because of it, one constantly sees new faces showing up at AA meetings, with many of them sticking around for relatively few meetings.)
My estimate, however, isn't too far out of line with the figures given by Bill C. in a 1965 article in the Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol.vii In it, he reports that of 393 AA members surveyed, 31% had been sober for more than one year; 12% had been sober for more than one year but had had at least one relapse after joining AA; 9% had achieved a year's sobriety; 6% had died; 3% had gone to prison; 1% had gone to mental institutions; and 38% had stopped attending AA. What makes these numbers even more dismal than they appear is the fact that Bill C. defined a member as someone who attended 10 or more AA meetings in a year's time. When you take into account the "revolving door effect," it becomes apparent that far more persons attended AA meetings than the 393 "members" Bill C. lists. It seems quite probable that he picked the figure of 10 meetings in a year as a membership criterion because AA's success rate would have been revealed as microscopic if he had used a smaller number of attendances as his membership-defining device. (It should also be mentioned that attendance at 10 meetings in itself seems to imply a fairly high degree of motivation.)
The success rate calculated through analysis of the 1996 AA membership survey is hardly more impressive. The survey brochure indicates that 45% of members have at least five years' sobriety. Using the figure of five years' sobriety as the criterion of success, one arrives at an AA success rate of approximately 2.6% to 3.5% (in comparison with the total number of "alcoholics" in the U.S. and Canada). And the success rate is lower than that if one defines "success" as AA does—as lifelong abstinence.
It could be argued that this is an unfair way of evaluating the effectiveness of AA, and that only "alcoholics" who have investigated AA should be considered. That's a reasonable argument, but there's evidence that a very high proportion of "alcoholics" have at one time or another checked into AA. Anyone who has attended many AA meetings can testify that droves of newcomers show up, attend one, or a few, meeting(s), and then are never seen again—the "revolving door effect." As well, roughly 270,000 individuals accused or convicted of drunk driving and other alcohol-related crimes are coerced into 12-step treatment every year in the United States.viii Based on the sheer numbers of such persons, it seems probable that well over 50%, perhaps as many as 90%, of American and Canadian problem drinkers investigate AA at some time during their drinking careers.
There's statistical evidence to indicate that this is so. Well known researcher Robin Room, of the Addiction Research Foundation, reports that a 1990 survey of 2058 Americans aged 18 and over revealed that 9% of American adults have attended an AA meeting at some time in their lives, and that an astounding 3.4% claimed to have done so in the previous year.ix (The latter percentage is almost certainly incorrect.x) If Room's 9% figure is even close to being correct, it's good evidence that a very high percentage of U.S. and Canadian alcohol abusers have attended AA at least once. In 1996, 9% of American and Canadian adults corresponded to roughly 19.6 million individuals. This figure, when compared with the previously mentioned estimates of alcohol abusers and alcohol-dependent persons (16.13 to 22 million individuals), provides persuasive evidence that the percentage of "alcoholics" who have tried AA is high indeed—and that AA's success rate is very low.
-- From the book, "AA: Cult or Cure?"
http://www.morerevealed.com/library/coc/chapter7.htm
Also in Chapter 7, is there some kind of standard? :)
Another Resource for Neuroscience info
I found this today and thought it looked good.
http://www.sfn.org/index.aspx?pagename=brainfacts&print=on .
It's above my head but I find this science stuff rewarding. good night
Hey Sir Real 8-)
Nice to see you!!
I say, fuck AA :-)
but then, I always had a problem with authority...
IMPORTANT: Sir Real,
Please understand I am very well versed AND believe in Meditation, for decades... All of Life starts with a Breath. First Start by sitting or lying {be warm, also}. If sitting, looking down, focus on a spot and breathe & release deeply & slowly.
I have been a "natural" Witch since birth {by 9 yrs good friends called me a Catholic Witch} and a Trained Druid for many many a decade. I am also well trained for decades in Tibetan Buddhism.
My overall belief & meditative belief came before T. Buddhism, but T. Buddhism is sacred. I am no longer a "practising" T. Buddhist now, but it is inter-weaved within me.
BTW When I could afford {there are some LOW-payment plans} Acupuncture works - which should BE a part of Medicine & Healing - & one gets to breathe and meditate too... ;)
...just a "thimble-full" of what I believe...
/|\)0(
;)
A friend of mine just published this book
He has quite a story and after many relapses found Buddhism and wrote the "12 Step Buddhist". It is a little different...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywor...
om mani padme hum
Thanks,...
Thanks, CeeCee for the interesting information about A.A. and its effectiveness...as well as some of your personal history.
I agree with you on how it's the empowerment, or lack thereof, which hangs me up with A.A., not the God thing. I don't mind that part so much except for when the state government mandates its citizens to participate in A.A. and attend a certain amount of meetings as a result of one getting a DUI, or wishing to be eligible for parole.
There definitely is something to the relationship between nutritional deficiencies and the need to drink alcohol, I believe. I think it is addressed in the book, "The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure," as well as in couple of other books which I've stumbled upon, including one, I think, by Deepak Chopra.
The founder of Rational Recovery, Jack Trimpey, argues against this as being necessarily the answer. And, my own personal experience tends to concur. Some people who abuse alcohol and drugs do take nutritional supplements and eat healthy foods, etc... so that they have more stamina to drink and get loaded. That was pretty much my approach.
As for therapy, I was never much for it in my life until I finally acknowledged that I needed help. Once I did this, I became receptive to speaking with therapists. This is a new development for me, but I plan to continue asking for help.
I believe there are some issues from the past which may be affecting my emotions, perceptions, etc... in the present moment, but I don't believe my past memories are that accurate and don't wish to dig up a can of worms which I'm not sure are true. I've read about all the harm caused by 'false memory' syndrome. I know that there is some healing that can be done by addressing the past, I just don't think I want to dwell on the less than credible specifics of my past.
I think some of the steps in the '12 Step' programs run the highly probable risk of making me feel worse & presenting me with additional problems to the ones I already have.
I had hoped that addiction treatment would teach me skills as to how to avoid drugs & alcohol,...& how to deal with life's stresses better. It didn't really. It seemed to treat me like I was a 'forever less than normal' human, with no hope of ever being normal.
...As a 'morally flawed, mentally deficient degenerate.'
It seemed like the treatment center counselors were trying to 'break' me like a POW, or something, during the 'small group' therapy. I found collaboration for my observation of how I was being treated when I read, "Therapeutic Groups versus 12-Step Groups: An Analysis of the A.A. Prototype."
But, CeeCee, Jack Trimpey, a long-time former drunk and A.A. attendee, who eventually turned against A.A. and created Rational Recovery and (AVRT), based on rational emotive behavioral theory,...said that a person with an alcohol problem has a fifty times better chance of abstinence if he stays clear of the A.A. system. He says that someone who shows up at an A.A. meeting of his/her own volition (not court-ordered) is already considering abstaining from future alcohol use and is 90 percent cured. He is taking responsibility and becoming empowered; but then the A.A. message tries to convince him/her otherwise, that he/she is powerless, etc...
Anyway,... Thanks, CeeCee for your thoughts.
Thank you, taozen...for the additional brain & neuroscience information you have posted here & also the other stuff you e-mailed me about. I am looking into all of it, and it is most excellent. I look forward to responding back to you either here or by e-mail once I finish reading all of it.
Hey, Kevin,... Good to hear from you. I hope you're doing well. I actually sent you a book & a CD a few months ago but I'm not sure if I sent it to the right address. I hope you're still doing the nature thing.
Hey, Annette,... I think we all have a problem with authority here in Sederville. That's why we all congregate here. :)
Hi, mhappenow,... Thank you for the sweet e-mail & your offer of support and help. I intend to take you up on your offer. I really look forward to hearing your perspective. I think I understand some of the psychology perspective on why the '12 Step' approach is helpful for some people, but I would love to be able to have an overall more positive attitude about it.
I just printed out your on-line book, Shadow Story/Enlightened Truth from your blog at www.mhappenow.blogspot.com/
And, I am reading it now.
Thanks, also, for the link to the '12 Step Buddhist'.
That looks to be a great read.
Thank you, Sir Real...
...I have been grappling with this issue more so lately and it's becoming increasingly troublesome so I too am trying to find answers before it's too late. My sister-in-law has lost three of her four siblings to alcoholism in the last four years.
I wish you well and thank you, again, as well as everyone for sharing. I am most grateful.