Bailout...Debate

I'm sure you realize that MONEY knows the subtle differences between the party's?

*

MM...Martin Luther King didn't live long enough to see Obama either - Do you think he should have shut up too?

Veterans organizations have come out against McCain. He received a grade of D from the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and a 20 percent vote rating from the Disabled Veterans of America; Vietnam Veterans of America noted McCain had “voted against us” in 15 “key votes.” Both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars criticized McCain for opposing Sen. Jim Webb’s 21st Century GI Bill.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/08/mccain-veterans-award-redux/

Thanks for your wonderful insight.
I know it helps me to understand
certain things that are going on
in this crazy fucking world we live in.
Thanks from me & take a BIG HUG!

ABC’s Charlie Gibson and PBS’s David Brooks and Marks Shields note that McCain never looked at Obama during the debate.

No, I would say the terrorists in Afghanistan are fucked.

And that's just how it should be.

Both candidates ready to press on the War on Terror.

I would say Cindy and her pals are fucked.

Obama's not all bad.

He's a far cry form the Code Pink Crazies and the Anti-war nuts.

Obama and I are not that far apart!

that Obama would of gotten a
little bit more aggressive.
Brought up more of the fucking lies
that that MORON was telling.
Is it me or did Gramp-ee seem
like he knew what was going to be asked???

Submitted by maggiesboy on Fri, 09/26/2008 - 10:10pm.
...She [Sarah Palin] can no longer be defended, unless your defense is when the going gets tough she'll try flashing her tits.
-----
It seems crazy but IT JUST MIGHT WORK!

(Since global warriors tend to be male.)

Liars rarely do look you in the eye...

___
bluerootsradio

because he is a fucking liar.

Did you notice that they are both left handed 2

Giving points to McCain. I disagree. I think McFeeble was on the attck tonight and used all the spin.

McCain looked to me like more of the same. No change there!
4 more wars!

Real Reason McCain can't raise his arms ...
...all those bracelets.

He's a far cry form the Code Pink Crazies and the Anti-war nuts.

Submitted by McCainVoter on Fri, 09/26/2008 - 10:47pm.

His smile always shouts "I'M SO ANGRY!"

I couldn't help contrasting Obama's performance with Kerry. Kerry was a much better debater. It was the only time during the campaign that he seemed to actually want to win the election.

is like a fucking robot when he moves.

..post debate and buried Rachel until 1 a.m. That's by design I'm sure.

She should have been on the immediate post debate panel as should KO, or even any of the real liberal commentators they have.

It's corporate rule tonight because they knew Obama would be strong. Gregory is half way up Uncle Cracker's ass.

Disgusting, simply disgusting.

___
bluerootsradio

Submitted by McCainVoter on Fri, 09/26/2008 - 10:47pm.
...Obama and I are not that far apart!
--------
Maybe...maybe if we ignore Obama's college education, his years as a professor of Constitutional Law, his high-end I.Q. and his concern for the plight of ordinary citizens.

Other than those differences and a few thousand more, you are two peas in a fucking pod.

mvslive promo videos.

Funny Stuff :)

hard to tell what McSame was trying to do.

anything over 30 seconds and his drone would make my eyelids start sagging.

amazed that he would'nt lock eyes with Obama. that's the mark of a coward.

he came out of it very badly, not much content, tragic body language and confused wandering speech.

pretty sad.

Obama on the other hand is a natural speaker, poised and influential.

no contest, McSame might as well have stayed home.

While there is so much Obama could attack McCrazy on, he is by nature one who looks for common ground. It makes it hard for him to sound tough in a debate. He also has to live with the racism in this country. Many who see a black man raise an argument with righteous indignation, see him as someone who is "dangerous".

...just like Alaska and Russia are not so far apart.

Just like a conservative faced with defeat to try and jump ship. After all, for them it's being able to say "I won"!

___
bluerootsradio
Fuck the good of the people, I won!!

...Obama looked human.

___
bluerootsradio
That's a plus for a President I'm told.

McMean getting slaughtered on MSNBC poll

I don't think this debate changes anything. Obama looked more presidential and certainly competent enough on foreign issues. McLiar was certainly more aggressive, and exhibited some of the bizarre antics of GW. This won't move the polls more than two points either way. I think the Sunday shows will be nearly important as this debate actually. But, nothing happened here at all. No game changer, and this is McLiar's "strength."

http://jeffblack.newsvine.com/_question/2008/09/26/1919787-who-won-the-p...

last thread

McCain was intense

Bug eyes, gripping the lectern [one of my pet peeves - you stand on a podium]

I expected him to have a stroke right there.

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

Upset?

Well I coulda told ya we weren't gonna elect a left wing President, we don't have one in the race.

And the Democrat we do have has his hands full in year all he was supposed to do was show up and be inaugurated.

I would think you would have learned to take this kind of thing better.

Ya still have a lot to learn.

On ABC, New York Times columnist Tom Friedman called McCain’s claim that he has consistently supported alternative energy “a howler.” Friedman also quipped that McCain wouldn’t be able to pay for his new nuclear power plants by cutting $18 billion in earmarks.

The new tech you're using is muchly 'preciated.

Can't wait for Oct. 1 and the new show.

___
bluerootsradio

interview...whatta train wreck...

Nader, Chris Rock and Ron Suskind on Maher tonite

...fuck all of the MSM bobbles

Palin's VP?

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

they don't have anything intelligent to say that i have heard so far - best comments are from the blogs and the occasional c-span caller.....

all in all i am disappointed, not in obama, i think he did as well as he could and was expected, given the circumstances, but the circumstances are fucked, the fact that mcain is so disgusting and such a liar and it's so unbelievable, the fact that it would be even conceivable for someone to prefer mccain to obama is crazy and depressing, especially after everything that the country had been put through by the bush gangs

but i'm excited about sam's videos and upcoming show - it's gonna be so good, we sorely need his and marc's wit and humor

Easy!

The good Rev. Witchdoctor!

Don't know about you, but them witches been keeping me up all night.

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bluerootsradio

Well WaDo...as long as you're now voting Obama..we'll help you continue your education too and still allow you to think you're continuing ours..

I have no problem with that Outcome..

glad you're finally on board little buddy!

Now how about that nic change!

who would be
new
Submitted by jbenet on Fri, 09/26/2008 - 11:08pm.
Palin's VP?

is on w/ olberman

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

and stupid people who don't know they're stupid are pathetic and a little funny... stupid people who think they're smart are dangerous, to themselves and others.

Oh, I can't vote for Obama for President.

He is the second best conservative in the race.

I like Obama's aggressive stance on attacking into Pakistan.

Shows he has the right stuff to fight a war.

And no one is going against the Generals in Iraq.

All in all Obama would make a great V.P. or better yet a White House spokesman.

..when the media vets McCain's outright lies. Seems to be their favorite thing to do the past week or so. I didn't catch any from Obama but I'm sure he'll have a couple. The difference is his were not intentional.

___
bluerootsradio
I gotta work in the mornin'
G'night
G'people
G'bloggin'

Free Ralph!
Can't wait to see him on Maher.
If he truly is stealing votes from McCain, then put him on prime time 24X7 til Election Day.

because they cannot interact with the world as it is.. they have to twist and distort reality to fit their ideology, and then interact with *that* mess. which is why bonzo and the neocons fuck up everything they touch, and always will.

Yes...It should be on the copy of DUH magazine along with Clay Aiken being gay (as someone wisely pointed out - I forget who)

It's by design..and it's not good enough...

If all I have are the comments from my own county....the people in the united states who vote are not that bright...also by design...

The point is that these two choices are not enough...no one should have stayed home...MORE qualified candidates should have been speaking...and my point was that THEY who ever they are, they KNOW that Dem voters are more emotional...and brighter...Just like Bill Maher told that guy two weeks ago...They play to the stupid...and the Dems play to the rest of the people who care to vote...

Of course it's the kind of wrap-up I like.
Rachel brought up O's response "I have a bracelet too, John." That's a good one, don't let him own patriotism.

Update: Biden's on now, ripping McCrazy a new one. Can you imagine Palin in the same situation?

Keith Olbermann highlights the fact that McCain admitted that the U.S. tortures. McCain has previously said waterboarding is torture, while noting that the U.S. has waterboarded.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/31/mccain-torture-waterboarding/

With this market bailout in play Obama is going to have to make some tough choices on all those spending plans.

Taxes too!

The next debate will be just as great!

McCain OR Obama? What's so difficult to understand and offensive to you about that? I was under the impression that the majority of this blog don't care for the media, money and corporations running things either? They run this...and you think it's ok...Maybe this is where we differ...?

just said mctense was the most relaxed and was the only one that introduced humor. He's right there, McCain was a joke.

the faux staff are all on speed.

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

Submitted by McCainVoter on Fri, 09/26/2008 - 11:05pm.
...Ya still have a lot to learn.
-----
I learned more since last Tuesday than you did during thirty years of loading paper into a sheet press.

you mean when janeane tore john fund a couple of new ones?

i think i would amend your optimistic view (with which i agree, in essence); but that a 28-percenter like john fund who may not be as stupid as the people whom he is manipulating - who come by their stupidity honestly - just simply do. not. know. what. stupid. looks/sounds. like... and so they look at tonight's debate and honestly believe that john mccain did a good job of expressing their own misguided, mis-informed and dis-informed opinions - completely independent of facts.

Just a little thought experiment.

I was referring to when McCain has a stroke before the election

Palin becomes number one, then who would she pick.

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

Of course O has to make some hard choices, MCV, he said so in the debate.
But McCrazy's continued ranting about cutting spending didn't address lots of tough questions. Does he want old people to freeze this winter, does he want more bridges to fall? Of course he never wants to cut defense, or by his preference, offense.

And taxes, McCrazy just ignores it when O points out his tax cuts benefit the rich. O got in the point that McCrazy wants to tax your employer's contribution to healthcare. If JSMIII had to buy healthcare in the "free market", even he couldn't afford it.

i think she'd pick tahhhd, her husband.

and voting for a person who wants to 'kill bin laden' is ok....

Submitted by 60th Street on Fri, 09/26/2008 - 7:49pm

EXACTLY !

pull palin, and jam jeb and mittens in there... in fact, i think that's been the plan all along.

Submitted by Alice on Fri, 09/26/2008 - 11:06pm.
Whoa, Crank..you were very right about the Ralph & Triumph interview...whatta train wreck...
-----
Now THAT'S riveting intertainment!

http://www.nbc.com/Late_Night_with_Conan_O'Brien/video/clips/triumph-interviews-ralph-nader-91908/669522/

I learned more since last Tuesday than you did during thirty years of loading paper into a sheet press.

=====================

But tonight's debate brought to mind how folks were predicting that Obama would be invincible in these debates.

Of course that was before it was understood that Obama's talent is in reading a prepared speech from a teleprompter.

Something else there to learn?

The link didn't do the blue thingy. Try this one and then click that one:

http://www.nbc.com/Late_Night_with_Conan_O'Brien/video/

Just Google Ralph Nader Triumph The Insult Comedy Dog and figure it out for yourselves.

!

he didn't ask where the dog food was.

He did not wet himself. 10+

I'm shocked and awd.

I haven't read enough on that.

But what I did see sounded like EVERYONE would get this health insurance credit.

But if you has health benefits, the credit would be returned as a tax.

You can't have both.

Loved the mvslive clip.

I hated that McCain got away with the lie that he supports veterans and will take care of them. I wanted Obama to tell how he opposed the GI bill that just passed the Senate. And that he voted to authorize torture!

http://www.youtube.com/votenader08

You can see his reactions here....

McCain
"I don't even have a seal yet"

[put punchline here]
==

yea but you have a pig w/ lipstick

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

FREEP LIST FOR TONIGHT'S DEBATE
by Kevinole
Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 05:50:57 PM PDT
After every presidential debate news outlets all across America (and the world) post polls on their websites that ask "Who do you think won the debate?"

I'm posting this handy starter list of news sites that host these polls.

Your mission is twofold...

Add to this list with local and national news sites that have polls (swing states especially!)
At the end of the debate, visit as many of the sites listed here as you can and cast your vote for Barack Obama.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/26/19044/7434/435/611793

Barack has a tough time backing out of those kinds of errors.

CNN has the tape Obama's statement in the Youtube Debate.

They played it again after the debate tonight.

The question was asked and they not only stated the names of the leaders, but flashed thier pictures up on a screen for Obama to see.

Obama said he would sit down with them with no preconditions.

It's tough to get around the video tape.

one of my uploads finally made it
The Republican Plan
from last night off cspan

Is this topsy turvy enough for you?

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

your nose is running again buster. Lets pretend like you sucked a lime and wipe, ok.

But you have your facts right. McCain, blindsided by facts. Want a lollipop or a tatoo stamp?

and a $5000 tax deduction for a family does not cover private health care. Insurance should be in a pool so you can't have your pre-exisitng conditions used against you. That is one of the strengths of employer sponsored health plans and removing the tax incentive will be their death knell. I would like single payer but I can imagine your response to that.
McCain was quoted in an article recently pushing the reduction of regulations for heatlh insurance companies, so they could be as successful as many of our new "financial products".

omg..what was he doing with that accent?
Submitted by Alice on Fri, 09/26/2008 - 11:39pm.
-----
I think that he was trying to join in with the comedy joviality with some ad-libs.

Here's my advice to Ralph, me or anyone else: When confronted by a comedian who is riffing on the shtick he knows like the back of his hand, go with the flow. Be self-deprecating. Acknowledge your subservient position in the shtick.

Alternately, have a rehearsed and finely-honed counter shtick ready to rock-and-roll before you walk into the room. (Although even that is risky. Butting heads with Don Rickles is not a good idea.)

{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...

MCCAIN 69% 81,286

OBAMA 29% 34,094

NEITHER 2% 2,751

Total Votes: 118,131

AOL poll is whack.

Know much about sampling methods in polling, MCV?

And get over the hyperventilation about Iran. Ahmidid? is not the real power, the Grand Ayatollah is. McCain made the big gaffe about Pakistan. Musharraf came to power in an ugly, American-backed coup, not saving a "failed state".

Obama's plan is to sell you an insurance policy.

Now he hopes to get you a good price.

I think that is were that hope thing comes in.

Once again that isn't a bad idea.

But Obama is right, to get the money out of ya'll it's going to have to be taxed right out your check, or added into your income taxes.

Otherwise folks will do just like they do now.

Truer words have never been blogged...

I'm just showin ya what's out there.

The real polls will take a day or two.

But John had a good day all around today.

And I think the folks will reflect that in the polls.

that's what Obama said.

http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/

what an a-hole!

The debate
Who performed better in Friday's presidential debate?

Barack Obama 74 %
John McCain 24 %
No clear winner 3 %

Results are based off 6387 votes

http://dyn.politico.com/polls/poll_resultsiframe.cfm?uuid=A1AAC9D1-18FE-...

is a compromise that I'm not crazy about but it doesn't destroy my group plan, McCain's does.

Taxes are our cost of supporting our "commons" as Hartman would say. I think those who are blessed with more are obligated to provide more. I believe much of an American's individual success comes from the luck of being born here. And some grown up does have to come along and try to clean up this Rethug mess.

Submitted by McCainVoter on Fri, 09/26/2008 - 11:48pm.
...Obama said he would sit down with them with no preconditions.

It's tough to get around the video tape.
---------
Facts are facts and the fact is that Henry Kissinger (McCain advisor) agrees with Obama:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/story?id=5888984&page=1

...Palin was overlooking that Kissinger (with whom she met earlier this week) has backed negotiating directly with Iran over its nuclear program and other bilateral issues -- a point which Couric reconfirmed at the closer of her interview.

"Incidentally," said Couric, "we confirmed Henry Kissinger's position following our interview, he told us he supports talks if not with Ahmadinejad, than with high-level Iranian officials without preconditions."

When contacted by ABC News about the split in position with Kissinger, the McCain-Palin campaign had no immediate comment.

Who fared better in the first presidential debate?
Sen. John McCain 28% 26197
Sen. Barack Obama 67% 63171
Neither 5% 5166
Total Votes: 94534

Tweety just drives me up a fucking wall.

Why didn't he mention poor african americans tonight?

HOW MANY TIMES DID OBAMA MENTION "AMERICANS" NOT GETTING BY FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE THIS CRISIS?

Maybe, Tweety, he sees us as Americans... not white Americans and black Americans.

Jeebus...

And not just about my bank account, either. I am a skeptic and about as far from paranoid as you can get. But, then, I saw an article on www.armytimes.com, and I asked my sister in law (who is in the Army) about it.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

Did you know that the Army is preparing for civil disobedience in November? Did you know they're bringing their 3rd Infantry home from Iraq so that they can train in what the Army calls: “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.

“It’s a new modular package of nonlethal capabilities that they’re fielding. They’ve been using pieces of it in Iraq, but this is the first time that these modules were consolidated and this package fielded, and because of this mission we’re undertaking we were the first to get it.”

The package includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and, beanbag bullets.

“I was the first guy in the brigade to get Tasered,” said Cloutier, describing the experience as “your worst muscle cramp ever — times 10 throughout your whole body.

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

After 1st BCT finishes its dwell-time mission, expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one."

A PERMANENT ONE.

Military state!!!

Alice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do we even care about Drudge's poll?

Let's talk about Free Republic's instead.

~-~-~

Who won the debate?

McCain - 100%!

Obama - Just anotha' uppity niggah!

no poll at FOX NEWS

I have noticed those blessing most often follow hard work, sacrifice, and a conservative lifestyle.

...and have always payed for killing people here, and on the other side of man-made borders where other people live...or TRY TO - in spite of their own puppet or otherwise governments...

18%John McCain 9,624 votes
77.4%Barack Obama 41,451 votes
3.4%Tie 1,819 votes
1.2%Not sure 664 votes

don't u sass me!

Who did the best in Friday night's presidential debate?

John McCain 5%

Barack Obama 94%

I believe that an impartial observer would call the debate a tie.

Now all we have to do is find an impartial observer.

Pretty good Swimsuit Competition Video of Sarah Palin over at Huffington Post -- but it still can't compete with Palin's Talent Competition Video where she field dresses a moose.

(Necessary Disclaimer: Made it up....) Greetings All! Just got the SederMaron good news. So how is everybody here now that we have more to look forward to?

Who do you think won the first presidential debate?

Obama (8137 responses)

91.3%

McCain (780 responses)

8.7%

8917 total responses (Results not scientific

Who won the debate?

McCain 20 %

Obama 80%

Whose Team Is Henry Kissinger On?

======================

Kissinger came out with a statement right after the debate tonight.

You're not going to be happy when you read it.

=======================

Kissinger Unhappy About Obama

Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/09/27/kissinger-say...

saw something about that here...

Hey so do you want to tally the dead Pakistani's and Afghani's when Obama turns the military loose on them? Or shall I?

http://www.philly.com/philly/polls/29828934.html

o 61%
m 39%

Who do you think won the first presidential debate?

Obama 91.2%

McCain 8.8%

Because it has the most traffic for a news site on the web.

Total Votes: 142,717

http://www.drudgereport.com/

are followed by a loss in your 401K these days while the robber barons get to keep their golden parachutes. I read the R's are trying to block a D proposal limiting the amount companies can write off for CEO salary to $400,000, poor babies.

"Who won the debate?"

Obama: 132%

McCain: Less than one whole person.

Margin of error = Pretty big, plus or minus.

___

.♡. - .☮.

McNugget?

Instead of watching the debate tonight, I went to see Mark Crispin Miller. He was in town tonight for a conference on voting. He was great.

I'm currently watching the debate on the the Span. McCain is pissed! When Obama speaks Gramps looks like he is going to explode.

Ralph was/is a great warrior, A, but I'm beginning to believe that O IS the real "uniter, not divider" this time.
WE have to win this time. Third parties can have 2012 if we haven't ended with a "bang or a whimper" by then.

I am not of the same thought, but I do hear you. And as I have said, I too hope that O is all you expect and more. I am just not seeing the evidence of that, nor have I chosen to believe that this time will be different, as I have in the past.

So because it's an election year, he's just another flip-flopper, wado?

It's really sad when your own argument comes back and slaps you right in the face, ain't it?

http://deseretnews.com/article/content/mobile/1,5620,695261802,00.html?p...

40% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. 22% thought John McCain won. 38% saw it as a draw.

68% of these voters think Obama would make the right decision
about the economy. 41% think McCain would.

49% of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. 55% think McCain would.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/cbs_news_knowledge_...

O is our only hope. That is just the way the system works right now. You pointed out the hard work Ralph has been doing to change the system but it won't happen in 40 days.

I'm worried about Colorado and Georgia. And wherever else they get deployed to.

Have you ever had to *deal* with a soldier who just came home from war?

I have.

How are they supposed to treat us civilly after they've just gotten back from Iraq? And they're not used to using non-lethal means of control?

I have had a couple of domestic divorces involving soldiers. Violent, alcohol drinking, problematic...angry, angry people.

Not a safe choice, at all. Like setting pit bulls loose on sheep. That's what we're lookin' at, folks...

This blog, 2004 election...even though I lied about voting for Kerry (I wasn't registered to vote, but knew I would get my head cut off here for not voting) - I acted as if I had and hoped for the best - that was not a very good outcome. And after watching two Dem's seemingly take a dive - I chose a new route...and also decided to stay here - on this blog - where it seems like anyone who ever sounded a little bit like I must seem now is mostly gone..and I feel alone and cold but...whatever.. :) I know if this blog were around a campfire or picnic table and we didn't have to think about politics we would have SO MUCH FUN TOGETHER :)

That's also because it's the only one you wingnuts know how to find.

Asshole. Elbow. They ain't the same!

I smell a new bumper sticker

Submitted by McCainVoter on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 12:18am.
...He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level...
-----
Someday I will teach you the meaning of parsing words after-the-fact.

It is obvious that Kissinger has been encouraged by the McCain campaign to do damage control for his words of agreement with Obama.

Kissinger and Obama are both still saying exactly the same thing: They recommend very high level U.S. diplomatic discussions with very high level Iranian officials, devoid of preconditions that require capitulation prior to the conversations.

This is one-hundred-and-eighty degrees from the current policy, which is the salient point.

in the 70 years old and older category. He got a 6.70 and the next runner up was 6.699. Denturgard declares best in class.

Does it dry up,
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore and then run....

Langston Hughes, I believe. I used to have it memorized, eons ago.

There is hardly any difference between Obama and McCain.

Except Obama would attack across the border into Pakistan, and McCain know we are already doing that.

I would say the biggest difference between the two would be in their nominations to the Supreme Court.

Other than that, they both sing in the same choir.

either of those places and more dead SOLDIERS - AND more dead PAKISTANI'S AND AFHGAN people...

Why do we even care about Drudge's poll?
Submitted by McCainVoter on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 12:20am.
----------

I don't want to bust your bubble, but I will. Daily Kos gets 454,000 hits a day. Why don't you ask Drudge for a date? You know you want to.

Sorry. We just liked saying that in hs.

but tonight it seemed like the turd in the punchbowl.

Sorry, I was just so excited to hear someone sound so PRESIDENTIAL after our 8 year nightmare.

i think obama was trying to tease mcdeath into losing his cool. i'm pretty sure it'll happen before the debates are over.

28% only win when the intelligent folks show up and vote.

see adlai stevenson's remark on the subject, which is perfect.

of men and women who have killed for the u.s. government...

But no Dem comes out as WAR IS NOT AN OPTION and gets away with it in this game of politics...

And that speaks not only of this government, but its people as well.

I mean, the guy is one of the top 5 biggest creeps in history.

If Kissinger disagrees with Obama, that is absolutely a good thing for Obama.

wasn't that where all the warm fuzzies came from?

Bailout bill quickly grows in length
Once 3 pages, the bill has grown to 102 pages and legislators will add more.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/26/national/w15...

it's all been a turd since then here...

I understand you have very limited in your access to cable news.

But if your work at it, you can watch Obama in the Youtube debate.

Then you will come to understand why you are wrong.

Unless your refuse to believe your lyin eyes.

==========================
But it not really new news
==========================

U.S. diplomat to attend Iran negotiations

(0) 16. Juli 2008, 14:19 Uhr

While a top U.S. diplomat has no plans to meet separately with Iran's chief nuclear negotiator, the mere presence of the Bush administration official at talks between the Iranian negotiator and representatives of other world powers will be a sharp break with past administration policy.

Foto: DPA
William Burns will travel to Switzerland with the EU foreign envoy Javier Solana to attend talks aimed at persuading Iran to halt its nuclear enrichment programme.

William Burns, America's third highest-ranking diplomat, will attend talks with the Iranian envoy, Saeed Jalili, in Switzerland on Saturday aimed at persuading Iran to halt activities that could lead to the development of atomic weapons, a senior U.S. official told the Associated Press on Tuesday. It will be the first time such a high-ranking U.S. official has attended such talks.

Worked early today, now I'm tired.

Later

Submitted by Annette on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 12:32am.
...Have you ever had to *deal* with a soldier who just came home from war?

I have...

...Not a safe choice, at all. Like setting pit bulls loose on sheep. That's what we're lookin' at, folks...
------
No shit. It goes both, or many, ways though. I know (knew) an Iraq vet who returned, married, and snoozed on the couch every day until his divorce months later.

...sort of curling into the davenport fetal position for eternity.

this time he got to go "head-to-head" with the "war hero" and he showed he knows a hell of a lot more about foreign affairs than the MSM narrative says about him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tss5OK1NAS0

Submitted by dada on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 12:42am.
------

You're absolutely right dada. He is a wanted war criminal to the tenth degree. A turd with eyes, he is.

Is that anything like the grubal position?

or the macgrubal position?

dems who run to the center can't win in this kind of environment, when the fourth estate is in the pocket of the corporate/conservative right...

to win, barack will have to hold here for awhile, then dodge to the populist hard left at the end. 'liberal' is an insult to a vanishing minority of stupid ideologues/bumper sticker mentality... but if the media echo chamber reinforces the stupids, a dem centrist will look weak and waffling.
if obama comes out hard left for a 50% tax cut for people under 100k with a fat cash rebate for people facing foreclosure, and end the trickle-down myth forever - he'll win in a landslide.

a chicken in every pot today would be free basic healthcare for everyone making less than $150k, free public education, through college, and no tax on startups and small businesss organized under sub-S rules...

economies recover from the bottom up. always.

Why, that's what Kissenger does best.

MM...Martin Luther King didn't live long enough to see Obama either - Do you think he should have shut up too?
*******
I never told you to shut up..Take a Tranq..

But,I'm getting close to the point of telling you to Fuck Off..

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

Submitted by edna ellen poe on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 12:51am.
You're absolutely right dada. He is a wanted war criminal to the tenth degree. A turd with eyes, he is.
----
That is not the point. If you two want to dance around the issue by attacking Kissinger's record, have fun with that.

It has no bearing on the fact that Kissinger is a former statesman of the highest level who was chosen by the McCain campaign as a foreign affairs adviser and Kissinger agrees with McCain's opponent.

That's the point. You may continue trashing Kissinger for his past all you want. I don't care. I don't condone Kissinger's hawkish and misguided history, either. I registered for the draft during Kissinger's tenure with Nixon so he ain't exactly my best bud.

But what I think of Kissinger has no bearing on whether he agreed with Obama or not.

It sounded like this to me - "Ralph will never be president while you are alive so give it up..."

omg...I don't see any advisor on either side that is what I would call impressive...

Who are Ralph Nader, or Cynthia, or Gloria or Brian's advisor's I wonder - and who the fuck needs an advisor anyway!? We may as well elect a round table if this is how a candidate needs to make a case.

Heh!!!

Just kidding...

(trying to lighten the place up a tad)

I'm afraid, you guys...
Submitted by Annette on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 12:12am
*******
If The M$M isn't worried about it,why should you ?

Besides it runs in Bushtards family..Fascism that is..

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

Submitted by 60th Street on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 12:54am
----
Thanks, you asshole. Now I've got the Ma-grooooo-ber song chorus stuck in my head again.

Kissinger is McCain's advisor?

He was like, on TV, already a well-known politician, when I was in diapers.

DO THESE PEOPLE EVER RETIRE?

Is the White House just a new name for a nursing home now? Will they have crossword puzzles, too?

Who did she blow to get that job ?

And No,I don't want to know who Tweety blew !

It's really screwing with my thought process!

:)

that has impressed me most recently. I read (thanks ToniD, probably)that the D's let Obama state their side in the big
White House meetup. He got Paulson to admit the
R's plan wouldn't work and painted McCrazy into a corner; he was basically speechless. That's what I mean by a real "uniter not divider". I'm probably more centrist than most here because I do believe that "the perfect can be the enemy of the good".

http://deletetheborder.org/

Biden's EVERYWHERE at once...just like Santa! I just had to make that fucker a ham sandwich and he drank all my beer and made me drive him to the airport!

Mah grooo BER!

RAwl! (that's my Dean scream)

http://www.prisonplanet.com/pictures-lego-block-prison-cells-readied-in-...

Chubbs has already told me to fuck off - but he manned-up and called me a bitch too....and ono called me a cunt...so go for it...Whatever you have to do...

Keep diggin!

==========================

Fact Check: Kissinger Defends McCain's Iran Stance
Email
Share September 26, 2008 11:54 PM

ABC News' Kirit Radia Reports: Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger came to the defense of longtime friend Sen. John McCain following Friday's presidential debate saying he "would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level."

"Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality," Kissinger said in statement issued by the McCain campaign.

During the debate, Obama pointed to Kissinger to defend his position because the former secretary of state supports direct talks with high-level Iranians without preconditions. Kissinger does not, however, support the U.S. president personally engaging in those talks, a point which McCain sought to drive home during the debate.

While it appears Kissinger and Senator Barack Obama disagree on what level those talks should occur, they do agree talks should begin, in Kissinger's words, “at a very high level” and without preconditions.

During the debate, McCain said that Kissinger would not endorse Obama's position that he would meet on a presidential level with leaders of enemy countries. "I guarantee you he would not say that," McCain said of Kissinger.

Obama took issue with McCain's characterization of the former top diplomat's position, but just last week Kissinger said that, while he broadly agrees on the need to negotiate with Iran, he "preferred doing it at the secretary of state level."

When asked if high level talks with Iran should begin right out of the box, Kissinger replied "Initially, yes."

According to Obama's official website he supports "direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions."

On preconditions the two appear to agree. Last week Kissinger also said that "I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/fact-check-kiss.html

Is ANYONE gonna do something about this guy?!?

In last year's YouTube debate, Obama said he would be willing to meet the leaders of nations such as Cuba, Iran and North Korea without preconditions.

His Democratic rivals pounced, calling the stance naive and dangerous. Obama adviser David Axelrod insisted Obama was talking only about midlevel diplomatic discussions, not summit meetings involving the president.

But Obama decided to stand by his statement, using it to draw a distinction between himself and candidates with more conventional approaches to diplomacy. Opponents have used it ever since to argue that Obama would be soft in dealing with dangerous nations.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hU8N7F1CH6p0Ll30DwjpTRYBnw8AD93AH9B00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1dSPrb5w_k

http://www.tindallcorp.com/tindall_corrections.htm

Bank Borrowing From Fed Already Exceeded Bailout Total in Last Week

U.S. banks borrowed $188 billion per day on average in the latest week from the Federal Reserve, meaning that the Fed loaned out more money than the Treasury’s proposed bailout in just one week, still barely managing to keep the economy afloat.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bank-borrowing-from-fed-already-exceeded-bai...

if it's not broke - break it - and take credit for breaking it
or fixing it - whatever...

Here's the bullet points directly from the House GOP plan:

[ and why it won't work - here ]

[and the obstructionists video from last night]

* Rather than providing taxpayer funded purchases of frozen mortgage assets, we should adopt a mortgage insurance approach to solve the problem.

* Currently the federal government insures approximately half of all mortgage backed securities. (MBS) We can insure the rest of current outstanding MBS; however, rather than taxpayers funding insurance, the holders of these assets should pay for it. Treasury Department can design a system to charge premiums to the holders of MBS to fully finance this insurance.

* Have Private Capital Injection to the Financial Markets, Not Tax Dollars. Instead of injecting taxpayer capital into the market to produce liquidity, private capital can be drawn into the market by removing regulatory and tax barriers that are currently blocking private capital formation. Too much private capital is sitting on the sidelines during this crisis.

* Temporary tax relief provisions can help companies free up capital to maintain operations, create jobs, and lend to one another. In addition, we should allow for a temporary suspension of dividend payments by financial institutions and other regulatory measures to address the problems surrounding private capital liquidity.

*Immediate Transparency, Oversight, and Market Reform. Require participating firms to disclose to Treasury the value of their mortgage assets on their books, the value of any private bids within the last year for such assets, and their last audit report.

* Wall Street Executives should not benefit from taxpayer funding. Call on the SEC to review the performance of the Credit Rating Agencies and their ability to accurately reflect the risks of these failed investment securities.

*Create a blue ribbon panel with representatives of Treasury, SEC, and the Fed to make recommendations to Congress for reforms of the financial sector by January 1, 2009.

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

LEHRER: Question?
MCCAIN: My friends, fluffs self, Lies about Obama, pats self on back.
OBAMA: Corrects distortion, actually answers question.
MCCAIN: Meanders off topic, points to when he supported "___" (ignores times he opposed "___"). Tells folksy anecdote.
OBAMA: Corrects framing of question, again answers directly with remaining time.
MCCAIN: Out of lies on subject; bases response on, "You know, I went there once". Wraps self if flag, tells touching story. Ronald Reagan.
OBAMA: Also has a bracelet, but answers on topic. Again.

Lather, rinse, repeat. If we count honesty, Obama trounced McCain. Tomorrow's fact-checking will be interesting.

Perhaps we should just build a Thunder Dome.

If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you're "exotic, different."

Grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, a quintessential American story.

If your name is Barack you're a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.

Name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, you're a maverick.

Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable.

Attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you're well grounded.

If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you don't have any real leadership experience.

If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you're qualified to become the country's second highest ranking executive.

If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you're not a real Christian.

If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian.

If you teach teach children about sexual predators, you are irresponsible and eroding the fiber of society.

If, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, you're very responsible.

If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family's values don't represent America 's.

If you're husband is nicknamed "First Dude", with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn't register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that hates America and advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.

Posted by One Fly.

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

Crank, the point of your argument with War Dog is who Kissinger agrees with. I am not challenging that, or dancing around the issue. I just don't care who Kissinger agrees or disagrees with. He's a war criminal, and I can't seem to look beyond it, and get into a discussion about him as a 'respected statesman,' or any of that stuff.

The First Presidential Debate
The first debate of the general election campaign probably didn't change anyone's mind. Both McCain and Obama looked presidential. While each man landed some blows, neither came close to being knocked down. If forced to choose a winner, I'd give the very slight edge to Obama since the debate was primarily on foreign policy which is McCain's strongest issue.

Other reactions:

Ben Smith: "The mild consensus in the press file was that McCain won, if not in particularly dramatic fashion. The two insta-polls out -- from CBS and CNN -- found the opposite: That Obama won by a wide margin. CBS had it 39% to 25% for Obama, CNN 51% to 38%."

Ezra Klein: "Give McCain this: He did an extremely good stylistic job in an extremely hard situation. I doubt he could have offered a better performance. But the polls suggest that undecideds broke hard for Obama anyway. Which suggests that McCain's problem is what he's saying, not how he's saying it."

James Fallows: "This is distinctly strange -- if anyone else notices. Obama is acting as if this is a conversation; McCain, as if he cannot acknowledge the other party in the discussion."

Marc Ambinder: "No memorable moments. Fascinating body language. No major gaffes by either candidates. No major surprises.

Kevin Drum: "Am I off base, or was this one of the most soporific presidential debates in a while? Frankly, I didn't think either one of them did very well. There was way too much rambling, and way too few sharp points. Overall, McCain was more lively than Obama, but if the point of the debate was for Obama to show that he could hold his own on national security, then count it a win for Obama. I wouldn't call him a big winner, but he certainly did at least as well as McCain, and that might have been all he needed."

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/09/27/the_first_presidential_deba...

Initial Polls Show Obama Winning The Debate
By Greg Sargent and Eric Kleefeld - September 27, 2008, 12:21PM
Okay, we thought that McCain had a slight upper hand tonight (though we also said it wasn't a game changer, which is basically another way of saying that McCain didn't do what he had to). But the initial polls suggest that viewers give the nod to Obama in a big way.

Here's the CNN poll, conducted among debate-watchers:

Regardless of which candidate you happen to support, who do you think did the best job in the debate -- Barack Obama or John McCain?
Obama 51%
McCain 38%
Did _______ do a better or worse job than you expected?
Obama: Better 57%, Worse 20%, Same 23%
McCain: Better 60%, Worse 20%, Same 18%

Next, regardless of which presidential candidate you support, please tell me if you think Barack Obama or John McCain would better handle each of the following issues:

• The war in Iraq: Obama 52%, McCain 47%

• Terrorism: McCain 49%, Obama 45%

• The economy: Obama 58%, McCain 37%

• The current financial crisis: Obama 54%, McCain 36%

Thinking about the following characteristics and qualities, please say whether you think each one better described Barack Obama or John McCain during tonight's debate:

• Was more intelligent: Obama 55%, McCain 30%

• Expressed his views more clearly: Obama 53%, McCain 36%

• Spent more time attacking his opponent: McCain 60%, Obama 23%

• Was more sincere and authentic: Obama 46%, McCain 38%

• Seemed to be the stronger leader: Obama 49%, McCain 43%

• Was more likeable: Obama 61%, McCain 26%

• Was more in touch with the needs and problems of people like you: Obama 62%, McCain 32%

Based on what _______ said and did in tonight's debate, do you think he would be able to handle the job of president if he is elected?
Obama 69%-29%
McCain 68%-30%

And the numbers released so far from the CBS poll of undecided debate-watchers: 39% said Obama won, 25% said McCain won, and 36% said it was a draw. Forty-six percent said their opinions of Obama went up, compared to only 31% who said the same about McCain. On the economy, 66% said Obama would make the right decisions, compared to 44% who said the same for McCain.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/initial_polls_sh...

The Sarah Palin Disney Movie-

http://rickyvanvee...ant-comparison-of

This is a real ad from McCain's campaign following the debates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec3aC8ZJZTc

I would have thought it was a joke, but it's not as this is up on his official website.

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

By Chris Powell

26/09/08 "Day Publishing" -- -

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20874.htm

To the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20873.htm

Sami al-Haj, an Al Jazeera cameraman, was beaten, abused and humiliated in the name of the war on terror.

By Robert Fisk

26/09/08 "The Independent' --

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20877.htm

Sorry if this has been posted before..

By James V. Grimaldi and Robert O'Harrow Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writers

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who has made a crackdown on gift-giving to state officials a centerpiece of her ethics reform agenda, has accepted gifts valued at $25,367 from industry executives, municipalities and a cultural center whose board includes officials from some of the largest mining interests in the state, a review of state records shows.

Con't-WaPost

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

last night we heard that one of the worst crisises that mcbush feels the country is facing is 18 billion dollars in earmarks. granted he totally ignored the 500 billion dollars we have poured down that rathole called iraq or the 700 billion in handouts we're about to give wall street.

still its interesting to note what wall street paid in bonuses last year. from ABC

In 2007, Wall Street's five biggest firms -- Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, and Morgan Stanley -- paid a record $39 billion in bonuses to themselves.

That's $10 billion more than the $29 billion loan taxpayers are making to J.P. Morgan to save Bear Stearns.

Beyond Ideology, a Generational Clash
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/us/politics/27watch.html

One candidate cited Churchill and Eisenhower, and described George Shultz, who served in Ronald Reagan’s cabinet, as a “great secretary of state.”

The other promised anxious voters a federal budget that could be examined on a “Google for government” and accused his opponent of having a “20th-century mindset.”

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

from the NYT: S.E.C. Concedes Oversight Flaws Fueled Collapse

WASHINGTON — The chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, a longtime proponent of deregulation, acknowledged on Friday that failures in a voluntary supervision program for Wall Street’s largest investment banks had contributed to the global financial crisis, and he abruptly shut the program down.

====

in other words, my philosophical approach to not regulating the markets as lead us to the brink of a global collapse of the economy, but i wouldn't change the way i did it, in fact, i'll stop doing what little i was doing.

a little financial humor while we dangle our feet over the abyss:

http://www.lacrisepourlesnuls.com/

Fannie & Freddie Mortgage Farms :

You've got two cows, but they are starving, so your friend Henry comes up with a great plan : your cows will drink their own milk. This is where you explain Henry that they already do, since the beginning of the business.

Washington Mutual farm :
You've got two huge cows, you'd like to sell them to the butcher, and you know he won't take them because they're too big to die. So you split them in two, and your four newly attractive cows are immediately bailed out.

Mika Brzezinski just said McCain was rehearsing at a mock set in Washington the past two days [?w- th]
but what is more important than that fact was that she said "we knew (he was rehearsing) through some of our sources..."

and yet they promoted the lie.

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

CNBC's Cramer on bailout: "stocks of Main Street that are about to be crushed" if no deal
Chris in Paris · 9/27/2008 04:56:00 AM ET · Link
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I don't always agree with Jim Cramer but in this case, he's right. Nobody likes the bailout and I don't see Wall Street sweating blood yet (that still may come as the economy sags) but the Democrats have added a lot to the initially flawed Paulson plan. Paulson's royal decree (I am beyond criticism and oversight) is gone, limitations to golden parachutes are gone and Congress is more deeply involved which is good news. The extremist Republicans continue to fight amongst themselves for a touch of theater but without a resolution, retirement money for average Americans will be slaughtered.

People have lost enough already and just holding steady would be a nice place to be compared to the massive hemorrhage experienced during this crisis. The bailout is not going to prevent more bank failures nor will it cure the economic problems created by the Republicans, but it is going to help everyone from hitting rock bottom and an even larger hole to climb out of. I don't give a damn about Wall Street but I do care about retirement plans that we're all counting on for our future.
The situation right now is so bad that a little Cramer calculus showed the Dow could drop to as low at 8,378 – a 2,768 decline – if Paulson’s plan doesn’t make it through Congress. That’s why this week’s Game Plan, just like last week’s, is a call to viewers to keep selling their stocks into any strength. Deal or not, we’re still most likely going to see a recession, so you want to preserve capital at all costs. The only thing a congressional agreement really brings us is avoidance of another Great Depression.

Just in case you think this bailout is only about saving Wall Street, think about this: 100 million Americans – about half the adult population – owns stocks directly or indirectly through mutual funds or retirement plans. No deal means your pension fund, 401(k), IRA, 529 college savings all plummet in value. Cramer can’t emphasize enough how important Paulson’s plan is to boost the credit markets – the economy’s fuel – force money back into stocks, bonds and the like, and get economy moving again.
He also goes on about the world economies that are also going down, leaving few untouched and that will present its own set of challenges in addition to our own economic problems. I would disagree with the suggestion that FDIC insurance is raised to $2.5 million (the costs would be outrageous) but surely the Democrats need to raise the $100,000 figure. There's too much panic out there with everyone checking what's insured and what's not insured and moving money. Additional panic and moving money is not what the systems needs right now.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26906947

It's good to be a failed bank CEO
Chris in Paris · 9/27/2008 03:34:00 AM ET · Link
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Kinda like being a failed CEO of Merrill Lynch ($161 million O'Neal and 9-months-for-$200 million Thain) or Citi ($40 million for Chuck Prince) or Bear Stearns (James Cayne for $61 million) or Countrywide (Angelo Mozilo for $110 million) or Lehman Brothers ($2.5 BILLION bonus fund after failing) or AIG (Maurice Greenberg selling $1 BILLION in AIG stock after the bailout). The latest prime example of Washington Mutual (WaMu) CEO who worked a whopping THREE WEEKS who is entitled to $18 million. Since when did being a failure become a recipe for financial success in America? This is what the Republicans have done to our system that used to reward hard work and success but now only rewards failures at the top. Some kind of message we're sending to everyone.
Washington Mutual Chief Executive Alan Fishman could walk away with more than $18 million in salary, bonuses and severance after less than three weeks on the job, according to the terms of his employment agreement.

But will Fishman follow the lead of another troubled financial firm and turn his severance package down?

JPMorgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500) grabbed up the banking assets of WaMu on Thursday after federal regulators seized the company, making it the largest bank failure in history.

JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon said in a conference call with reporters Friday that no decisions have been made about the fates of WaMu senior executives.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/09/its-good-to-be-failed-bank-ceo.html

All agree and are making fun of McCain not looking at Obama.
Barnacle said he couldn't look at Pat Buchanen because he will turn into a pillar of salt.

They agree McFeeble looked angry amd old.

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/09/an-alternative.html

it actually makes a lot of sense.

in the meantime:

WHO WON THE DEBATE? CBS news

Bill King's plan sound reasonable to me.

I was thinking about local banks myself and microloans to small businesses, especially businesses that specialize in alternate energy. These microloans are working in 3rd world countries. Why can't we do that here?

There are so many better ways to do this but the congress seems to be working under the idea that they have to do something fast.

by kos
Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 10:45:06 PM PDT
Given the CNN and CBS polling, the public has overwhelmingly crowned Obama the winner of the debate. It seems that Republicans spent so much time trashing Obama's "lack of experience" and "lack of judgment" on national security, that expectations were ridiculously low, and as a result, people were pleasantly (and happily) surprised.

Kind of imagine Sarah Palin, who we've all come to see as a blithering idiot, turning in a performance the caliber of Obama's tonight -- she would all the much stronger for it, no matter if on the merits, she merely equaled Joe Biden. That's what apparently happened tonight.

And those snap polls are apparently driving much of tonight's media narrative. That and McCain's inability to look Obama in the eye.

CW-meister Mark Halperin, on PBS:

I thought Obama clearly did better. I thought he had a chance to show that he was calm and prepared and capable of standing toe to toe with the more experienced McCain. I thought McCain spoke too much Washington jargon, told too many jokes in shorthand, made too many comments he knew what he meant but I don't think he conveyed it necessarily to the audience overall. I thought Obama was the better communicator an did what he needed to do to reassure people.

Richard Wolffe, MSNBC:

That was the greatest contrast…the demeanor and the tone of voice that these candidates adopted where McCain was being much more pointed much more aggressive and curiously couldn't look Obama in the eye. Obama's tone much more straight and even keeled but ready to look his opponent in the eye repeatedly. A big contrast.

Eugene Robinson, Washington Post:

Here’s the politically incorrect way of phrasing one of the central questions about tonight’s presidential debate: Did John McCain come across as too much of a grumpy old man?

That might not be a nice question, but it’s an important one. Americans like to vote for the nice guy, not the grumbling prophet of doom. Throughout the 90-minute debate, McCain seemed contemptuous of Obama. He wouldn’t look at him. He tried to belittle him whenever possible -- how many times did he work “Senator Obama just doesn’t understand” into his answers? His body language was closed, defensive, tense. McCain certainly succeeded in proving that he can be aggressive, but the aggression came with a smirk and a sneer.

Marc Ambinder, The Atlantic:

McCain did not filter himself, letting his frustration and contempt for Obama show; he wouldn't let himself look at the challenger.

So the verdict is in -- Obama won, and on the night that McCain needed to reverse his opponent's momentum. Perhaps McCain should've cut and run after all

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/27/12521/2632/94/612158

Where Have All The Good Times Gone

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

i can't help thinking that a lot of the end of the world talk is intentional on the part of wall street because the key to robbing us blind is to not let us think about what we are about to do.

that being said, i have no doubt that those who would benefit most from the bailout have the ability to crash the market to prove their point. i have seen on more than one ocassion the opinion expressed that we're not scared enough yet but if the market dropped another 1000 or 2000 points we would be ready to storm congress and say give them everything.

on the other hand if you have nothing invested or anything saved, its real easy to say let it go to hell. trouble is, when it goes, its going to take everything with it, safety nets, jobs, infrastructure, etc.

i used to think schumer was okay but after mukasey and some of the dlc shenanigans he has done i wouldn't mind seeing him exit stage left. still his idea to do this in phases is good. it buys some time for cooler heads and a democratic majority to fix the real problems.

And, can I just point it out that I was the first one in the country that saw this:

-------------------------------------------------
Telling
Submitted by 60th Street on Fri, 09/26/2008 - 9:58pm.

McCain is simply unable to directly address Obama and he hasn't looked him in the eye once.

This is the steely war hero?
-------------------------------------------------

Now can I please have Morning Schmoe's job?!

My name's even Joe!

Morning :)

20th century man

that Muswell Hillbillies was sure a good album.

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

When McSame gets Iraq veterans behind him in an ad like this...

Awesome Ad!

Countdown to McCain copying this ad...I'll bet it's less than a week.

The RNC calls ACORN "quasi-criminal" after finding two questionable voter applications in rural Florida.

By Steven Rosenfeld, AlterNet

The Republican Party is increasingly attacking voter registration groups that are perceived by the GOP as enfranchising likely Democratic voters, calling one of those groups "a quasi-criminal" organization because two voter registration applications in a rural Florida county were discovered to be problematic.

The two questionable voter registration applications found in Seminole County, Florida, were submitted by ACORN, or the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, which has registered more than 1.15 million voters in two dozens states in 2008. ACORN is the nation’s largest non-profit voter registration organization.

In a Wednesday conference call, Republican National Committee chief counsel Sean Cairncross called ACORN a "quasi-criminal" organization that was trying to create chaos with voting. He said it was "disturbing" that the group has links to the Obama campaign, saying the Democratic nominee worked with ACORN more than a decade ago.

The RNC teleconference came two days after the McCain-Palin 2008 campaign held a similar press conference call with former Sen. John Danforth (R-MO) and former Sen. Warren Rudman (R-NH) that discussed "issues of voter fraud, state specific voter fraud accusations, and the McCain-Palin 2008 Honest and Open Election Committee."

"The big picture is this is a Republican and McCain strategy to go after voter groups," said Brian Kettenring, head organizer of Florida ACORN, who said he has spent the past several days dealing with members of the media who are reacting to the GOP charges. He noted that the Seminole County Supervisor of Elections, Mike Ertel, has said that only two voter applications out of thousands submitted in 2008 are questionable and that the county's process to review these forms is working.

In Florida, where ACORN has gathered 135,000 new voter registrations this year, Kettenring said one of the registrations in question appeared to be filled out by a young woman for a friend. In the second case, a man’s voter registration form appeared to be incomplete. Typically, these errors would prompt local officials to reject the forms.

"What's going on here is a right-wing radio station called the supervisor trying to drum up a story," Kettenring said.........

Free Democracy

And Tammy Duckworth is in it!

this must be a pretty important rnc talking point. i had never heard of acorn till the local newspaper blogs started getting filled with winger comments about acorn and voter fraud all in the same breath.

Am I just crazy, or did McCain last night make a comment on South Koreans being 3" taller than North Koreans???

Yup. Sounds good to me. (At least for a start. Health care should be free or close to it for everyone. If your talking about being taxed to support that, that's different.)

rctowns: You're running for something? Very very very very good luck to you.

LOve her...I'll bet sheis put in charge of Vets Affairs in the Obama admin...she needs to get away from the Blagojevich administration, that's for sure...that guy's about to go down!

south koreans are taller than north koreans

google: are south koreans taller than north koreans

and it comes back with a whole bunch of hits.

i didn't hear it because i had given up unable to listen to mcbush's prevarications.

3"

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

If McCrazy did say this he could have been refering to recent reports about how multigenerational,near starvation has effected N. Korea's population (saw/heard a report on C-Span or NPR). Of course, we can't "talk" to them until they do everything we want. That was a good point O made about Bush/McC foreign policy but McC tried to ignore it and drown it out with attacks.

Dan- I skimmed the link you posted before. I wish I understood that stuff better but I agree with the underlying premise of decentralization. We have concentrated so much of our economy into shuffling paper and with this Ponzi scheme about to take it down, we need to use this opportunity to "reframe" our goals. That's why I like O's bottom up message. We can't keep letting R's get away with the trickle down argument.

Thanks ToniD! You post so many great things to read and think about later. I'm often using some fact you posted to support an argument (at least in my head)!

Kansas City Star (MO) Editorial, Obama has narrow victory in debate:

Americans looking for a warrior in the White House surely warmed to GOP Senator John McCain’s scrappy debate performance Friday night.

But Democrat Barack Obama turned in the more statesmanlike effort. He was unflappable even under McCain’s often condescending attacks. While McCain went for punches, Obama scored points with sound arguments.

Somehow, CNN has already conducted an actual phone poll which shows that voters overwhelmingly think Obama won the debate. Apparently, CBS just released a poll with a similar result. One CNN pundit (David Gergen) implied that these numbers, if correct, may be a fatal disastor for John McCain's campaign.

Update: CNN just released some internals from their poll which showed that Obama won the debate. 48% of voters 50 and older thought Obama won, but only 40% thought McCain won. This, of course, is McCain's base. Men gave McCain a margin of only 3%, and women gave Obama a margin of about 20%. More horrible news for McCain. John King made the point that it is these people (50 and older) who are looking at their 401K's, which they spent decades building up, only to see everything now gone.

because they eat more nutrional meals.

The North Koreans are oppressed by the government and their diet is limited. Keeps them on the small side.

Go to the video excerpt link below and tell me if you think that Sarah Palin is on drugs or just generally whacked out:
______________________________________________________

Cafferty to Blitzer: 'Don't make excuses' for Palin

RAW STORY
Published: Friday September 26, 2008

For those who feel sympathy for Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin during her recent response to a question on the bailout, here is a word of advice.

Don't tell Jack Cafferty.

The CNN anchorman lambasted Palin for her thoughts on the $700 billion bailout proposed by the Bush administration. After showing a clip of the Alaskan governor's Friday interview with Katie Couric on CBS' The Early Show, he had this to say.

"If John McCain wins, this woman will be one 72-year-old's heartbeat away from being president of the United States, and if that doesn't scare the hell out of you, it should," Cafferty said.

He asked viewers to write in opinions about Palin's qualifications for the presidency and then turned to Wolf Blitzer and said this:

"I'm 65 and have been covering politics, as have you, for a long time. That is one of the most pathetic pieces of tape I of ever seen for someone aspiring to one of the highest offices in this country."

This video is from CNN's Situation Room, broadcast September 26, 2008:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Cafferty_to_Blitzer_Dont_make_excuses_0926...

-

The report I heard talked about how the years of living under such an oppressive, military dictatorship had caused a generational change in the population. That's what happens when you put all of your resources in weapons, not food for your people. We have a carrot they want, food and fuel, but B/McC have to threaten and refuse to talk. O understand that we talk to our enemies, not just our friends.

did you see that disgraceful mcbush campaign ad where they editted the crap out of the debate to come up with 30 seconds of obama saying he agrees with mcbush and then close with obama, not ready to lead.

there ought to be a law about disingenous editing.

as for a disaster, someone noted that obama got high marks because mcbush's message that obama was not prepared had so lowered the expectations for obama that he couldn't fail. sounds like an rnc excuse.

but still, we have the alaskan pit bull debate coming up later this week. if palin can say her name without messing it up, they might score that as a victory. that coupled with anything factual or hard hitting that biden does will probably be held against him, although i would take great pleasure from seeing him mop the floor with her.

Lost battle with cancer

the seeds are being planted for palin to exit the campaign after one bad performance after another. if its going to happen, it needs to happen before she implodes in the vp debate.

when i heard that ghouliani was riding the plane to memphis with mcbush, i started get real concerned that we were looking at the next vp.

question: would changing vp's at this point send mcbush's campaign to the bottom of the ocean in grand titanic style or would it renergize the base and give him a bump in the polls?

This is an interesting Ad.

Let me see if I can embed it.
_____________________________________________________

*If Democrats were Republicans, they would totally run this ad*

Democrats can't count on the economy to save them. If they want to beat McCain/Palin, they need to start making Rovian-style attack ads. But they won't, so we will. Our sixth in an ongoing series...

http://www.236.com/video/2008/democrats_cant_count_on_the_9059.php

-

From MsLibrarian on DKos:

Never one to shy away from giving his opinions, Newman made it clear he wanted change in the country and worked towards it. He would often help with Democratic fundraising, like in a letter he wrote...I believe...a few years back.

"More than the films, more than the awards — finding out that I was on Nixon's Enemies List meant that I was doing something right.

"Nixon didn't like my campaigning for Democratic presidential candidate Eugene McCarthy. But then again, he didn't much care for debate, dissent, or the Constitution either.

"I was proud to stand with Democrats against an imperial president back then. And I am proud now to stand with a new generation of Democrats against a president who poses what I believe to be the biggest internal threat to American democracy in my lifetime.

There was someone who was a true Progresive.

From MsLibrarian on DKos:

Never one to shy away from giving his opinions, Newman made it clear he wanted change in the country and worked towards it. He would often help with Democratic fundraising, like in a letter he wrote...I believe...a few years back.

"More than the films, more than the awards — finding out that I was on Nixon's Enemies List meant that I was doing something right.

"Nixon didn't like my campaigning for Democratic presidential candidate Eugene McCarthy. But then again, he didn't much care for debate, dissent, or the Constitution either.

"I was proud to stand with Democrats against an imperial president back then. And I am proud now to stand with a new generation of Democrats against a president who poses what I believe to be the biggest internal threat to American democracy in my lifetime.

There was someone who was a true Progressive.

Did you enjoy the debate last night?

I sure did!

It's very reassuring to hear Obama talk about pressing the War on Terror.

Barack sounded a lot like our President Bush in his pursuit of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

It think the next debate is town hall style.

McCain really likes that sytle of debate.

Chris in Paris
new
Submitted by gloryoski on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 10:10am.

This guy makes a lot of sense to me. toniD, is there a way generate a list of hits for all of his posts on Americablog? I can't seem to do it through their search engine, and clicking on his name just gets me his profile.

Probably I've exhausted all the options and it can't be done, but I just expect you to be able to work internet magic....

The first thing I see if McCain dropped Palin is that Palin would be asked to resign due to "family Problems". He couldn't just deselect her because his conservative base would turn on him. He might keep some if she were the one to resign.

Giuliani was with him because of the Jewish High Holidays, Lieberman wouldn't go.

Don't know if he would pick Giulianni as a VP. I don't think his campaign people would want him, but I could be wrong.

Any person he chooses now won't help him much. The conservs don't really want Lieberman because he used to be a Dem, I don't think Giulianni is well liked, even by the conservs.
The Mormon won't do even though he has more of a financial background, and I don't think McCain likes him either.

Pawlenty might be in play again because he was on most of the stations last night taking the place of a VP.

Don't know at this point, just throwing things out there.

Short people are outraged at McCain's "three inch" comment in last night's Presidential Debate.

I don't know why the left is so afraid of Sarah.

I know that she is wildly popular, but she really seems to bring out the fear in the left.

One thing we do know is that Sarah Palin has reached that level where she will be around for a long, long time.

Hey toniD, just a different way to think about these things...

Did you really lose the battle if you lived to 83?

(Depends in part on how recently he got it, I guess.)

S'complicated. :-)

Electric 8 (3-0.0.1.7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

white magnetic wind ~ kin 222

UNIFY in order to COMMUNICATE,
ATTRACTING BREATH
seal the INPUT of SPIRIT
with the MAGNETIC tone of PURPOSE.
guided by the SAME power DOUBLED.
2nd quartet galactic activation portal...enter......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
◄ 12.19.15.12.14 ≈ hoo ix ►

....Trying to look like a Leader

Obama's support for the market bailout is going to send him back to the drawing board on spending.

It's good that Barack sees the importance of having a strong economic system.

First things first!

Sarah Palin is not wildly popular. She is a political opportunist who had the good luck of following some INCREDIBLY CORRUPT REPUB'S. She is way out of her league and many conservatives are already talking about ways to politely "get rid of her".

a few years back i was in vegas. there was a cardioligists convention going on at the hotel/casino we stayed at. at the blackjack tables one of the players asked a cardioligist about vices. his surprising response was that if you made it to 72 not to worry about your vices because you had already beaten the odds.

true. while he may make or the powerbrokers may make the call that its time for her to go, it will be framed in a way that is as beneficial as possible to the campaign. family issues is probably the path they would choose. its not as messy as a plane crash.

I think what you remember is the talk about dumping Biden and bringing Hillary in.

I think the Sarah / Biden debate is next week.

I bet more folks watch that one then tuned in last night.

The folks can't get enough of Sarah.

I don't know how to get how many hits Chris in Paris gets on the Americablog. Actually I just really liked his posts on financial concerns and he seems to be fairly prominent on the blog so I would assume he's well read and well liked.

About Paul Newman, he's had a long life but people are living longer now unless they have a bad desease. Both my parents died at age 83, and both from cancer. I noticed his age right away because of that.

They showed Liz Taylor at an AIDS function last night. She's in a wheel chair now but still has black hair and lots of makeup. She looked frail in spite of it. But she is still trying to help with AIDS.

More Breakdown from last night here:

http://mediacurves.com/

He did a great job of ripping McCrazy a new one in the post debate punditland. Sarah is being kept in hiding because everytime she opens her mouth she says something incredibly stupid. I can't wait for the VP debate, but I expect them to try and weasel out of it. That is, if she's not gone by then.

From DKos:

Take this to the bank: Chris Cox, the Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission "and a longtime proponent of deregulation" just admitted that it is

"abundantly clear that voluntary regulation [of the financial industry] does not work."

A CBS poll conducted minutes after the debate ended suggests that Barack Obama was the winner among voters who really matter. While partisans of both sides touted their candidates as the winner and most analysts called the debate a draw, it looks like the undecided tilted towards Obama.

Before the debate, 36% of the undecided leaned towards Obama and 34% leaned towards McCain. After the debate, Obama held a lead 41% to 29%.

Dumb & Dumber McStainVoter I don't know why you are so totally ignorant of facts and as stupid as anyone but obviously you are.

The FACT is that now that the newness honeymoon is over with so many FACTS out plus Palins speaking idiocy it is painfully obvious to even many conservatives & republicans that PALIN IS A HUGE NEGATIVE FOR MCCAIN now dragging him down much further in the polls from where he was. Just read the latest conservative writing in National Review. And if you weren't such an ignorant idiot you would read the facts on what a corrupt liar Palin is on record being in the latest rollingstone.com

By the way, Obaman Never Ever Was In Way Shape Or Form Like The Worst US President Ever w bush(junior).

So quit blowing posts out your dumb ignoramous ass WarDog/McShameVoter.

I thought the debate was a snooze - - i thought debate was point-counterpoint. All i heard was "bipartisan" this and that...
also McBUsh sutck on old talking opints - Obama "most liberal member of Senate.." Liar liar pants on fire!!
Obama also could have told McCain a few things hs "should understand" and "doesn't get..."
Oh McCain loves vets all right - voted against vets benefit increases...

When I was 12 I saw "Somebody up there Likes Me"....that was the first crush I ever had with an actor.

sniff....

Happe Talk

Submitted by WisePolitics on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 10:42am.
------

You're wasting your beautiful brain on Mccainvoter/Wardog. You'd be better off trying to enlighten a brick wall.

The issue is not a sombrero.
Submitted by dada on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 2:44am.
Crank, the point of your argument with War Dog is who Kissinger agrees with. I am not challenging that, or dancing around the issue. I just don't care who Kissinger agrees or disagrees with. He's a war criminal, and I can't seem to look beyond it, and get into a discussion about him as a 'respected statesman,' or any of that stuff.
--------
I understand your position. Really, I do.

I sometimes (more like "often") become frustrated when a response in a discussion veers off track. There is an infinite number of statements to be made but they are not all warranted in a specific discussion.

You cite Kissinger as a "respected statesman" which is probably the generally-accepted opinion of Kissinger. I intentionally referred to Kissinger as a "former statesman of the highest level" which is an accurate statement that does not apply goodness or badness to his performance.

You can accuse me of being wishy-washy for not injecting my opinion of Kissinger into the discussion but I did not (and do not) believe that my opinion of Kissinger added anything to the discussion. In fact, I avoided it so as to not muck-up the discussion with a tangent that is easily a topic of discussion all by itself.

I would just set up a new bank and tell the others they're on their own!

Mortgage help for bankrupt homeowners dropped

WASHINGTON - House Democrats say the idea of letting judges rewrite mortgages to help bankrupt homeowners avoid foreclosure won't be a part of the $700 billion financial industry bailout.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., told Democrats at a closed-door meeting Friday evening the provision would be a deal-breaker for Republicans who she has said must deliver substantial votes for the rescue plan. That's according to several lawmakers who attended the session.

Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama had said earlier that the measure didn't belong in the bailout.

The concession came as staff aides to key Democrats and Republicans worked into the evening searching for compromise on the rescue bill.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080926/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown_1146

Write or call or email or rally outside thier local offices, but voice your disapproval of this with your Congress people!

sam's got a new thread up but comments are disabled:

from the village voice:

INSIDE JOKE
A comedy festival that can laugh at itself
ANGELA ASHMAN

Oddball jokester Eugene Mirman—who has appeared on Flight of the Conchords (as Eugene the landlord), opened rock shows for the Shins and Modest Mouse, and has two hit comedy CDs under his belt—now adds festival figurehead to his résumé with his very own Eugene Mirman Comedy Festival. Kicking off tonight with an awards ceremony of silly accolades, the tongue-in-cheek affair features performances by Mirman and his alt-comedy pals, including Mike Birbiglia, Michael Showalter, Fred Armisen, Dave Hill, David Wain, and Janeane Garofalo. Highlights include the showcase One of Each (which features, explains the festival’s MySpace page, “an Indian person, a black person, a Jewish person, a white guy, a gay lady, and more”); The Apartment 2F reunion, in which the Sklar brothers, with Zach Galifianakis, discuss and screen clips from their short-lived 1997 MTV series; and The Very Best Supporting Television Cast Members Live, featuring comedians from Conan and Flight of the Conchords.

....rest in peace...

I agree with Rachel (and nightbird) that Obama should not have let that vet thing go by (or implication that he did not flip flop on torture either). Two things that could've caused him to win more decisively IMHO. And ,as Rachel says, debates are won at the podium, since that's about all low-info people are going to pay attention to--not fact checks on KO and RM, not the blogosphere.

It seems like it would be so easy so say: "John you're a great hero (conceding the point, as he always does) and you got thanked for your service with a real GI bill. Something that, for example, paid for vets to go to the college of their choice, not just part of the cost of a state school. But you voted against the new GI bill, which already is not as generous as the one you benefited from. (So and so from Vetsvote wants to know)do you think the country made the wrong decision to give WWII and Vietnam vets the rewards they got for their sacrifice? Why is now different?" (Only more articulate and with all the facts straight.)

My point it's fairly easy to come up with the rhetoric with which to neutralize "I'm a war hero (POW!) so don't you dare talk to me about this issue." It doesn't seem like he was trying.

S.E.C. Chief Says Deregulation Fueled Crisis

By STEPHEN LABATON
Published: September 26, 2008
WASHINGTON— Christopher Cox, the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission and a longtime proponent of deregulation, acknowledged on Friday that the voluntary supervisory program of Wall Street’s largest investment banks had contributed to the global financial crisis and abruptly shut the program down.

The agency’s oversight responsibilities will largely shift to the Federal Reserve.

The commission’s inspector general, in a report also released on Friday, strongly criticized the agency’s performance in monitoring Bear Stearns before it collapsed in March. Mr. Cox said he agreed that the oversight program was “fundamentally flawed from the beginning.”

“The last six months have made it abundantly clear that voluntary regulation does not work,” Mr. Cox said in a statement. The program “was fundamentally flawed from the beginning, because investment banks could opt in or out of supervision voluntarily,” he added. “The fact that investment bank holding companies could withdraw from this voluntary supervision at their discretion diminished the perceived mandate” of the program, and “weakened its effectiveness.”

The commission’s decision to end the regulatory program was somewhat academic. The five biggest independent Wall Street firms have all disappeared. The Fed and the Treasury Department forced Bear Stearns into a merger with JPMorgan Chase in March. And in the last month, Lehman Brothers went into bankruptcy, Merrill Lynch was acquired by Bank of America, and Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs changed their corporate structure to become bank holding companies, which the Fed regulates.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/business/27sec.html

If you mean pointing out why she should go...

Kathleen Parker - Out of Her League

David Brooks - Why Experience Matters

Russ Douthat-Sarah the Unready

___
bluerootsradio
..and those are only a few of the conservative pundits point out the Palin problem

You must be the alternate nic for this Crank Bait character.

I don't see why you must hide behind a pretend nic to post.

What is it you fear?

http://webb.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=303714&

But even that doesn't include help for people about to lose their homes.

I'll write to thank him for what he wrote but tell him it should have and he shouldn't let them concede the point.

Was listening to Weekend Edition... Poor Scott Simon, he sounded almost... morose this morning, didn't he? lol.

I'm doing something today I haven't done in years. Going to an amusement park with the nieces and nephews. Yes, Utah has an amusement park. Nothing like Six Flags, of course, but it holds it own out here in the middle of nowhere. ;-p

Wheee!

Have a good day all.

The undecideds poll is heartwarming, ain't it? Also, the punditry all making fun of McSame not ever being able to look at and address his opponent is a score for Obama.

ciao~

September 26, 2008

Election 2008

Conservatives try to sabotage McCain's loss by asking Sarah to drop out

Sarah Palin, we are a better website because of you. Kathleen Parker, a conservative columnist for the National Review Online, is calling for Sarah Palin to drop out of the race.

"Palin can save McCain, her party, and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons, perhaps because she wants to spend more time with her newborn. No one would criticize a mother who puts her family first."

Sarah, darling, don't listen to that nasty slut Kathleen Parker. She has an ulterior motive- she's trying to get McCain in the White House. I'm not.

Seriously, Sarah Heath Palin, I can't live without you. Like Paulson to Pelosi, I'm on my knees, begging you to be my partner in comedy until Nov 4th, when Barack Obama sends you and the entire GOP back to Wasilla with gift baskets of condoms and rape kits.

Every word that shoots from your sarcastic yet uninformed mouth is a gift from God. (Or a witch!) And Sarah, you head my favorite family since the Brady Bunch. The adorably miserable Bristol, soldier-boy Track and his coke habit, the Christchild Trig, Piper the licker and Willow, the mysterious one. Don't get me started on the Eskimo husband Todd who keeps puttin' it in ya after all these years. Do you know how many Palin stories we've done? 234. Whoops, this one-235. Never mind. The number rises quicker than the debt clock.

Just today, new video emerged of your swimsuit walk in the Miss Alaska competition. Yes, you were a runner up in Miss Alaska, and yes, you will lose Miss Vice-President, but 23/6 has a more impressive crown, Miss Internet Traffic:

http://www.236.com/news/2008/09/26/sarah_do_not_listen_to_those_b_9168.p...

-

What McCain Didn't Do At The Debate: Force A Sarah Palin Moment
By Greg Sargent - September 27, 2008, 9:40AM
On reflection, last night's debate is best understood by what McCain failed to do do. With the dynamic of the race hardening daily in Obama's favor, McCain needed to force a moment where Obama's supposed inexperience and lack of global knowledge jarred viewers into a sudden sense that putting him in charge is risky and dangerous -- hence McCain's repetition of that word.

He didn't do that. At all.

The problem for McCain is that majorities seem to fundamentally agree with Obama's view of the world and of America's role in it. Majorities want out of Iraq. Majorities view the original invasion as a mistake. Majorities favor meeting with hostile foreign leaders. Majorities say restoring America's image in the eyes of the rest of the world is a priority. Majorities say Obama is more likely to do that.

To be sure, McCain obviously does hold key advantages on national security. The latest New York Times poll finds McCain with big leads on the question of who's more knowledgeable about the world and who is likely to be an effective commander in chief. Voters also have repeatedly given McCain the edge on national security preparedness.

But what McCain needs to do is to get voters to make their decision on the basis of those advantages -- and not based on manifold other considerations, such as their overall visions and what each man says he'll do as President on foreign and domestic affairs alike. Right now, polls suggest that voters simply aren't making their choice on the basis McCain wants them to. What's more, as Nate Silver points out, Obama is actually closing the readiness gap.

We still stick to our opinion that on foreign policy McCain landed more blows and put Obama on the defensive too often. But ultimately, the electorate is already intimately familiar with the foreign policy differences between the two men. McCain may have contrasted himself effectively with Obama, but it wasn't enough.

Even if Obama was on the defensive at times, he projected a clear sense of calm and conveyed a knowledge of the world that was, at bottom, reassuring. Far from being apologetic about his foreign policy vision, Obama unabashedly stuck to his contention that, simply put, he is right and McCain is wrong. He argued his case convincingly, with an unmistakable grasp of nuance and detail.

McCain last night needed to suddenly reveal Obama as frighteningly unpresidential, unprepared, and potentially incompetent in the realm of international affairs. In short, McCain needed to force a moment where Obama looked a bit like, well, McCain's running mate. He needed to startle the electorate into seeing this race in a new way. And he didn't do that. Not even close.

A roundup of more opinion after the jump.

Read more »

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/roundup_of_opini...

At the bottom of that 23/6 page there was this:

Posted by: Laurie Kilmartin

She is my latest favorite politic writer. :)

http://www.236.com/news/2008/09/26/sarah_do_not_listen_to_those_b_9168.p...

-

Thresholds Crossed In Oxford
27 Sep 2008 08:09 am

I don't think Obama disqualified himself as a potential commander in chief(even if he didn't reach McCain's level) and I don't think McCain disqualified himself as a steward of the economy (even if he didn't reach Obama's level.

Question: will Saturday Night Live mock McCain's patronizing attitude toward Obama? Or Obama's manifold agreements with McCain.

The news media dial groups / instant polls seem to give the night to Obama; the partisan professionals seemed to give the debate to their preferred candidate. Very little cross-over.

Hillary Clinton raised Obama's game. A lot of what McCain threw at him he's heard before, and he was ready with quick, concise answers.

McCain arguably flubbed more lines -- mispronouncing Ahmadinejad and Zadari and Pakistan's history -- mistakes that, if Obama made them, would be consequential.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/thresholds_crossed_...

There is no way Giuliani will replace Palin. The people who love Palin hate Giuliani because he is a cross dressing New Yorker that kills babies. As far as trying to win with independents, there is no way McCain can win them given the campaign he has run and if he dropped Palin the bottom will fallout of the support he still has. That said, the McCain campaign has been stunt driven so far so at this point nothing would surprise me.

could be a 2 debate strategy for obama.

don't want to use all your best comebacks to early

because then mccain can be prepped(sp?) for the next one.

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

reMcCainVoter on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 11:07am.

this "Much Loved" Crank Bait character.

: )

~`~`~`~`~`~
Jamesbennett

Specifically, by a 62-32 margin, voters thought that Obama was “more in touch with the needs and problems of people like you”. This is a gap that has no doubt grown because of the financial crisis of recent days. But it also grew because Obama was actually speaking to middle class voters. Per the transcript, McCain never once mentioned the phrase “middle class” (Obama did so three times). And Obama’s eye contact was directly with the camera, i.e. the voters at home. McCain seemed to be speaking literally to the people in the room in Mississippi, but figuratively to the punditry. It is no surprise that a small majority of pundits seemed to have thought that McCain won, even when the polls indicated otherwise; the pundits were his target audience.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

National Rasmussen Tracking Obama 50, McCain 44 Obama +6
National Hotline/FD Tracking Obama 48, McCain 43 Obama +5

O will win Indiana, Missouri, North Carolina and Virginia.

Submitted by oakland_steve on Sat, 09/27/2008 - 11:21am.
a cross dressing New Yorker that kills babies.
-------

Baaah ha ha ha!

Celebrity Apes

http://celebrityapes.com/tag/john-mccain/

Obama had to show a lot of restraint or the "uppity" crowd would come out of the wood work. Obama waited to be attacked before he returned fire and in every skirmish, held his own. I'm sure Obama left many arrows in his quiver for the next debate. Obama knows how to use newscycles to his advantage, or better put, to McCain's disadvantage. Voters have short memories which is why he didn't throw his hay-makers in the first round.

I want to see all the isolated shots spliced together of McCain when Obama was talking. He looked like the poster child for Tourettes Syndrome with all those tics and facial contortions.

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bluerootsradio

I don't know why the right is so afraid of Sarah.

I know that she is wildly unpopular, but she really seems to bring out the fear in the right.

One thing we do know is that Sarah Palin has reached that level where she will joked about for a long, long time.

"I don't want to play the race card here.

When AAR launched in NY it displaced WLIB, a black station. Now one of the most persistently progressive sectors of radio here in the USA is black radio. Whenever I have been on it has been great and energizing radio. It is far more progressive, indeed more social democratic than liberal. It is a very solid base on which to build… yet AAR did little or nothing to cater for the WLIB audience they were displacing.

How can progressive radio engage this lively and committed audience? Or are we as subconsciously segregated as the right on this?"

I didn't know this before. I always thought one of the problems AAR had at the beginning was that it sounded too "East Coast Liberal Elite". I'm a Midwest girl who moved west and New York-centrictism annoys me.

Am I making up a word here? Maybe it is Tantricism since they almost f*d themselves, even with Sammy's heroic work.

Sarah Palin has become a caricature of herself.

only a teeny tiny bit of tantra is about sex....

Happe Talk

Saying millions of Americans will lose their homes or lose their jobs if we don't print $700B of new money and give it to institutions who lent money they didn't have is utter bullshit.

I'm sorry for those innocent worker bees who are suffering because of the decisions of their higher-ups, but that's free-market capitalism. Just be thankful for State Unemployment Benefits.

This issue is a direct result of a debt-based economy feeling the shock of unethical lending practices over the last 13 years (and probably much longer).

The wealth made from these "mistakes" in the lending sector, was entirely based on service fees made at the "point-of-transaction" of these loans. Once the initial service fee was received, the loan was re-packaged and sold off to become someone else's problem.

If we are going to authorize $700 Billion dollars to be sent out, then every single American should expect a $4000 income tax increase to be paid next year!

Otherwise, if we borrow this money, we will actually have to pay more than $700 Billion due to the interest. Right now, over $2000 of every American taxpayer's yearly income tax is used to pay the interest on the National Debt. The past eight year Republican governance has DOUBLED THAT BURDEN.

"the problem was the advertisers wouldn’t spend the money even though there was the traffic, why would a telecom advertise on a station that told everyone what the telecoms were doing, why would an oil company

it wasn’t about success, the hosts had incredible success, but the advertisers would (and should) boycot their dollars

Reply
Rory O’Connor September 6th, 2008 at 3:46 pm 114
In response to SanderO @ 108
AAR is important to study–but as much for what they did wrong and didn’t do as for their successes–altho they have had a few, and I’m hopeful that the new head guy Charlie Kireker might still turn things around both financially and in terms of ratings. So let’s not count AAR out just yet–they have at least developed a brand name!"

And your reply, mhappe, illustrates that most of us know the reference from popular/MSM references.

Obama campaign calls Palin ???a terrific debater???

Mike Allen 1 hour, 11 minutes ago

Obama campaign manager David Plouffe told reporters Saturday that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice presidential nominee, is “a terrific debater” who could give Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Joe Biden (D-Del.) a run for his money when they meet Thursday.
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“We’ve looked at tapes of Gov. Palin’s debates, and she’s a terrific debater,” Plouffe told reporters on a conference call. “She has performed very, very well. She’s obviously a skilled speaker. We expect she’ll give a great performance next Thursday
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080927/pl_politico/14014;_ylt=ApFKEgK...

i'm pretty sure it's diet. do you remember when italians where short? that was up to the turn of the 19th century which was also the peak of economic misery for the italian masses, emigration ensued and they were made fun of everywhere they settled because they were short, a stereotype that still endures somewhat (mostly in the clueless southern us states where i live). Italians are tall and gorgeous looking now; my grandfather was short, my father was short, my brother average-tall, his son tall and that's how it went generally.

i am short, married a short american and a short american daughter. She married a short european/american hybrid and they had two daughters. Will they be short?

we may be short but we are all smart and beautiful

After the Palin Interviews expectations are so low that she'll get credit just for showing up. Plouffe is trying to change that. I think it is important to keep in mind that she did perform well at the convention. At the debate she won't have a teleprompter to make sure she speaks in complete sentences but I expect she will deliver some sound bites effectively.

paul newman - so so so sorry

..even if they are vertically challenged!

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bluerootsradio

you really think so, ghettodefender?

While I agree that Plouffe's statements can't possibly be what they think, but them being afraid of her being "disappeared" is going a bit far.

Sarah Palin leaving the McCain campaign and a new VP pick taking her place would not be well received no matter how you spin it. It would be one too many hail mary's for McCain and no one's gonna buy that she did it for family reasons. That's not to say it won;t happen. At this point it would be par on McCain's surreal course.

What I get when I read between the lines of Plouffe's comments is that the Obama camp is both setting her up and giving her the "deference" that her own party is not affording her following her performance before the media last week and absence from last nights McCain spin. It's actually pretty funny that they're the only ones expressing confidence in her abilities right now. It's a no brainer for them to say that. Kill 'em with kindness, albeit phony political kindness.

I agree.

I don't think anyone should get a bail-out. Not the corporations, money-lenders, home buyers, anyone.

When I bought my home, I took a long look at my finances - how much I made, how much I'd saved, did the math, and found a small home I could afford without borrowing ANY money. Guess what? I still own it, in fact, it's paid for.

The problem is, as I see it, American's egos are completely unchecked, and everyone wants a brand-new mini-mansion to house it, and an SUV to drive it around in. These Americans are pathetic. And lenders who bullshitted them into believing they could have this with no risk are no different than pandering drug-dealers telling crack-heads what they want to hear.

It's not about obtaining "the American Dream" unless the American Dream is to go broke.

The American Dream is not about building an alter to our egos with big houses, stupid cars, financed clothes. It's not about obtaining THINGS. Things are fun, but they are not LIFE.

It's about peace of mind. Having a home no one can take from you. Providing for your loved ones. That is living an authentic life.

I blame America's ugly get-rich-quick (or at least look rich) mentality, and the dumbing down of it's people by TV, and a fracked up educational system, and by parents that are unable to teach responsibility and self-control.

someone upblog floated this idea

no, giuliani has other priorities; he just formed a new "giuliani and sons" (crime family) society to mop up the monies from the bail-out, to enrich himself and his at our expense, didn't ya hear?

for not doing jury duty, and then still had to do jury duty later--

Subpoenaed Palin aides could be found in contempt

With state officials again defying legislative subpoenas in the investigation of whether Gov. Sarah Palin abused her power, the war between state lawmakers and Alaska's attorney general is escalating.The governor's chief of staff, Mike Nizich, and six other Palin aides didn't show up Friday to honor subpoenas ordering them to testify in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee. The committee chairman, Anchorage Democratic Sen. Hollis French, said they could be found in contempt when the full Legislature convenes in January, a finding that carries potential jail time.

Alaska Attorney General Talis Colberg, a Palin appointee, filed a lawsuit late Thursday asking the courts to declare the subpoenas invalid so the state employees would not be punished for ignoring them.

Fairbanks Republican Rep. Jay Ramras, chair of the House Judiciary Committee, charged "there is likely very irresponsible behavior coming from the attorney general." Anchorage Democratic Sen. Bill Wielechowksi, a lawyer who is on the Judiciary Committee, said he is not impressed, either.

"I just can't imagine any attorney advising a client that a subpoena is voluntary," he said.

Colberg is coming under growing fire from legislators and other critics for how he's handled the battle between Alaska's legislative and executive branches. One of the stated aims of a planned "Hold Palin Accountable" protest to be held in Anchorage today is to demand the attorney general's resignation.

"There's talk of the AG, should he be disbarred and could he be disbarred, I just don't know," said Kenai Republican Rep. Mike Chenault.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/538471.html

yeah they're cute, the joy of my life, they're the main reason i get so emotional and involved in all this political stuff, thinking of their future

I do not agree. The hosts were diverse and smart and engaging. Go to WLIB now and check out who they are appealing to now. It is 24 hr a day gospel music. I suppose somebody bought up that station just to knock AAR out and now if you don't live in NYC you cannot get AAR on AM. It happened all over the states. One by one the stations got picked off. And why does a boycott by oil companies and other warmongers have to be a criteria for business failure? Are these companies the only advertisers?

Some folks are just renters.

That's life.

I was a renter once.

The system worked.

The Dems tried to get everyone to buy a house.

Home ownership take time and work.

No shortcuts

the daily show writers, they're great at this kind of stuff; did you see jon stewart in the bit of the bush clips side by side - the mushroom cloud iraq war announcement compared to the bail out announcement? a masterful piece of work

"I want to see all the isolated shots spliced together of McCain when Obama was talking."

and some history of AAR that I didn't know. I think they were trying to break ground, use a local station to launch a national product. There was a boycott of advertisers and since we live in a capitalistic market, it's something we have to deal with. Malloy's and NPR's pleas for membership don't seem to solve the problem.

I first heard AAR from Phoenix, 100 miles away and couldn't get a signal after dark. I got an XM radio to hear AAR. I only heard a little of Marc & Marc in the AM and it sounded good, but you have to admit that AAR screwed both of them. They never seemed to reach out to a more diverse or non-urban population.

The Sarah Palin Disney Movie-!

http://rickyvanvee...ant-comparison-of/

hilarious!

Hell, I don't know. The McLiar campaign is such a shambles now, nothing would surprise me. But, whatever they do now it's a lost cause. Embarrassed conservatives that wanted to believe they had a chance, came out of the woodwork after the Rethug convention and projected their whacko dreams on Sarah. Now they see she just isn't capable of being their standard bearer. It doesn't matter whether the Rethug keep her or dump her. They are stuck at 45%, and without absolutely massive election fraud and suppression they have no chance.
Plouffe's comments are laughable. This next debate is such a mismatch, that trying to lower expectations is a waste of time. Sarah might do better than expected-- Biden could have a cerebral aneurysm-- but Plouffe isn't fooling anyone.

Please don't stereotype.

It's way more complicated than that. Here are just some of the reasons why--with an emphasis on race.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080714/wright

And, even putting that aside, people whose houses are paid off or almost paid off, even those who never refi'ed or took out home equity loans but for whatever reason (e.g, because of other sucky parts of the economy and fear and/or fears that values will plummet further) need to get liquidity by selling are very fucked also by foreclosures going along apace. Lots of people in my neighborhood are in that situation and we hardly have mcmansions. (Which only adds to the prob. If we sell at too big a loss, it's not even going to give a safety net for apartment living for that long because even the "overvalued" price was not exactly a windfall.)

Anyway, the bailout for Wall Street is going to pass. That's pretty much assured. Do you really want [add: it, that is, the bailout] to be JUST for them?

Some folks are just thieves.

That's conservatism.

I was a renter once.

The system worked until '01.

The Cons tried to get everyone to buy a house.

Home ownership takes time, work and good credit.

No shortcuts, until Gramm gutted Glass-Steagall

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/TDS-Bush-Redux-Bailouts-092508.wmv

Which is why I'm a liberal. I'll take people over profits every time.
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bluerootsradio

There you go using that punctuation by itself again. I don't know what that means.

I think I agree with you. As an example, we have a station in Chicago, wcpt 820 AM. They have been very resourceful in getting people to advertise.

If you ever get a chance, listen on line and hear all the local businesses that advertise along with the large companies.

Our station does go on at sunrise and off at sunset on the AM channel, but the site link plays all day and night.

We have some of Jones and some of AAR programs.
Bill Press, Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz, Thom Hartmann, Rachel Maddow, and now Ron Reagan until his show gets timed out by the light of day. Weekends we have local people in the morning to afternoon. And then AAR programs. Used to caryy Sam's show.

I don't understand why AAR can't get sponsers.

That's one thing I like about Obama.

He is always will to just go along with a plan.

Once the markets are fixed we will have a natural governor on spending.

After we fund the War on Terror, Iraq, Afghanistan, the War on Terror, Obama can use the rest any way he likes.

In October 2006, ABC Radio Networks, then under Disney's ABC, told its stations to black out all ads from about 90 companies that did not want to have their ads on radio stations that carried Air America Radio. The internal memo from ABC Radio Networks to its affiliates was headlined "Air America Blackout" and was addressed to the Traffic Director who handles advertising for the affiliates. The memo states, "Please be advised that Hewlett Packard has purchased schedules with ABC Radio Networks between October 30th and December 24th, 2006. Please make sure you blackout this advertiser on your station, as they do not wish it to air on any Air America affiliate."

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It's all in the Wiki here..
Brought to you by Characteristics of Fascism #
6. Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

I do that when the blog double posts my comment.

I think you can edit out a double post by clicking edit, then delete anything in the subject line and comment box and arrow back at the top.

It's worked for me.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bank-borrowing-from-fed-already-exceeded-bai...

"Bank Borrowing From Fed Already Exceeded Bailout Total in Last Week

U.S. banks borrowed $188 billion per day on average in the latest week from the Federal Reserve, meaning that the Fed loaned out more money than the Treasury’s proposed bailout in just one week, still barely managing to keep the economy afloat."

there you go, always blaming it on the blog. what you need is one of those instant messenger pigs we were talking about yesterday

Hmm, somebody's got a one-track mind...?

Can't chew gum and walk at the same time? Boy, that sounds familiar...

I like the other quote about the trolls...

"You'd have better luck trying to enlighten a brick wall."

somebody up there likes me

he was gorgeous in "WUSA" - i have a vcr copy all scratchy and jammy but i will have to rewatch it - filmed in new orleans, beautiful 50s new orleans, political thriller about a radio station, paul newman being hired as talk show host, the WUSA station has a white supremacist agenda, paul newman needs a job and has a "whatever pays the bills is fine with me" attitude, joanne woodward is a good down-on-her-luck woman, a bum really, who crosses his path - they live in one of those typical french quarter apartments with internal courtyards and they have some hippy neighbors (ok then, maybe it was the 60s, not the 50s)there's a political intrigue in the subplot - my favorite kind of movie, no wonder it didn't become a huge success, it was probably pulled from wider distribution because of its political overtones (racism in the south)

if you find it in a video store (doubtful) pick up a copy you won't regret it

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066540/

Nobody Could Have Predicated

That "voluntary regulation" was an oxymoron created by morons...

WASHINGTON — The chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, a longtime proponent of deregulation, acknowledged on Friday that failures in a voluntary supervision program for Wall Street’s largest investment banks had contributed to the global financial crisis, and he abruptly shut the program down.

-Atrios 10:45

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/business/27sec.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&ore...

we both liked motorcycles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT-Bgz1-HQE

just as often as replacing both with a period.

Did you hear about this? McCain won the debate and we are winning in Iraq and Russia invaded Georgia and Kissenger has been friends with McCain for 35 years.

From an adversarial evaluation of the debate I felt this lost points for Obama. However, I always have to remind myself that the only people whose reaction matters are the undecided voters or weak McCain supporters. For someone that is leaning toward McCain because of the characterization that he is a foreign policy expert, hearing that Obama agrees with some of his positions could be reassuring. If a voter whose main concern is economics and thinks Obama is better on that issue but still worries about national security comes to believe that their views about foreign policy are very close he will find it easier to vote for Obama.

If it were the 50's we had the beatniks. Precluded the Hippies.

Beatnik is a media stereotype that borrowed the most superficial aspects of the Beat Generation literary movement of the 1950s to present a distorted (and sometimes violent), cartoon-like misrepresentation of the real-life people and the spirituality found in Jack Kerouac's autobiographical fiction.

In "Aftermath: The Philosophy of the Beat Generation" Kerouac spoke out against this distortion of his ideas:

The Beat Generation, that was a vision that we had, John Clellon Holmes and I, and Allen Ginsberg in an even wilder way, in the late Forties, of a generation of crazy, illuminated hipsters suddenly rising and roaming America, serious, bumming and hitchhiking everywhere, ragged, beatific, beautiful in an ugly graceful new way--a vision gleaned from the way we had heard the word "beat" spoken on street corners on Times Square and in the Village, in other cities in the downtown city night of postwar America--beat, meaning down and out but full of intense conviction. We'd even heard old 1910 Daddy Hipsters of the streets speak the word that way, with a melancholy sneer. It never meant juvenile delinquents, it meant characters of a special spirituality who didn't gang up but were solitary Bartlebies staring out the dead wall window of our civilization... [1]

Sam's in Brooklyn this afternoon.

Interesting place too.

the Bell House:

http://thebellhouseny.com/