From the mouths of Junkies

Hellol!

Fantastic ! :)

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

i couldn't agree more that congress should be called to task on this, but excuse my cynicism if i don't hold my breath.

Point of order:

Before it was a pilonidal cyst, it was a bad knee from a high school football injury.

...butt I digress.

Just for the record, Nicky...
Submitted by Liberal-at-large on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:03pm.
Al Gore: A User's Manual

Submitted by Nicky Rose on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 8:57am.

http://www.counterpunch.org/goremanual.html

*

...who would you prefer/support to run for president?

-------------------

Just for the record...
Submitted by Brett on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:08pm.
I heard Nicky's voting for the Pope.

-------------------

Just for the
Submitted by Nicky Rose on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 6:07pm.
Just for the record...
Submitted by Brett on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:08pm.
I heard Nicky's voting for the Pope.

Go fuck yourself.

-------------------

Pontiff Poll Puns
Submitted by Crank Bait on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 6:24pm.
Just for the record...
Submitted by Brett on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 5:08pm.
I heard Nicky's voting for the Pope.
--------
That would be breaking the Cardinal rule.

-------------------

So, Nicky, who is it that you support for president?

Or is it just, "not Gore"?

hmmm, even anarchy has rules...

Submitted by dan on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:07pm.

Anarchy doesn't mean no rules it means no rulers.

From the Greek an- + archos = no ruler.

No leaders, no followers.

Sounds like science fiction. Guess we're not there yet.

i should but i didn't know that. thanks.

As I see it, yes
Ask again later
Better not tell you now
Cannot predict now
Concentrate and ask again
Don't count on it
It is certain
It is decidedly so
Most likely
My reply is no
My sources say no
Outlook good
Outlook not so good
Reply hazy, try again
Signs point to yes
Very doubtful
Without a doubt
Yes
Yes - definitely
You may rely on it

I think Al Gore is much more effective doing his thing without holding an office. He wouldn't have time to champion the cause of saving the environment if he were stuck being commander in chief. He can throw that influence around on other issues. You don't need to be president to make a difference. Gore has proved that himself.

But then again, you better not listen to me. I'm thinking of becoming a Marxist.

Vote for the candidate that has all the answers.

Vote Bloomberg Terminal for president 2008!

i'm all about technology. yeeeah.

The etymology of anarchy:

[New Latin anarchia, from Greek anarkhiā, from anarkhos, without a ruler : an-, without; see a–1 + arkhos, ruler; see –arch.]
----
-arch
a.
[Gr. 'archo`s chief, commander, 'a`rchein to rule. See arch, a.]
A suffix meaning a ruler, as in monarch (a sole ruler).
----
arch (ärch)
n.
1.) A structure, especially one of masonry, forming the curved, pointed, or flat upper edge of an open space and supporting the weight above it, as in a bridge or doorway.
----------
dada,

I submit to you (possibly erroneously), that the overhead structure predates the ruler in the evolution of "arch".

If so, rules function in the same role as a ruler.

Thus, anarchy is no rules and no ruler (which is a tautology all in itself).

When it comes to words and their evolution, objective words representing basic human needs like fire, water and shelter (among several others) ALWAYS predate their eventual application to subjective concepts.

In its purest and strictest form (in my opinion), "anarchy" is defined as nothing overhead.

To define it otherwise requires adjectives.

A nihilistic Marxist or a Marxistic nihilist?

Somewhere in there, there's a dadaist, yearning to be free.

Heh!

*

G'nite, gang!

Peace

does my computer keep asking me to sign into splashcast? Is this normal?

;)

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

"I submit to you (possibly erroneously), that the overhead structure predates the ruler in the evolution of "arch".

If so, rules function in the same role as a ruler."

I would suggest that no overhead structure does not imply no structure entirely. Possibly "no rules imposed from above."

Without a ruler, we still have the Ratio Legis - Lat: the underlying principle; reasoning; grounds; scheme; theory, doctrine, or science of the law.

Notice: underlying, not overhead.

Lawlessness would be Anomos - Gr: anti-law.

Why.....
Submitted by Anonymouse on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 9:56pm.
does my computer keep asking me to sign into splashcast? Is this normal?
---------
Me too, only randomly.
-----------------------------------
I'm monitoring the Republican candidate forum on PBS.

Tancredo stated (in response to a question about Health Care) that the "government" never provides a better alternative to the free market.

Uh, highways? The military? His own Congressional health care program? Law enforcement? Fire departments? Pollution regulatory agencies?

What an unrepentant and sound-bite dick.

I'm against it.

***
Crank:

"If so, rules function in the same role as a ruler.

Thus, anarchy is no rules and no ruler (which is a tautology all in itself)."

***

I am sorry, but that was very flimsy logic. So flimsy, the arch just fell on your head.

Rules truly decided by the people

vs.

Rules decided by a ruler

These are not equal.

Cat Chew: I'm against it.....

Just cuz.

dada: "I would suggest that no overhead structure does not imply no structure entirely. Possibly 'no rules imposed from above.'"
--------------
Structure implies obeisance. The expectation/obligation to abide by a structure of rules owes nothing to whether the structure of rules originates from above, from beside or from below.

I would argue that the structure of rules always originates from a perceived sense of "from above", even when established by consensus. If it did not, no one would feel obliged to abide by the rules.

In other words, peer pressure can be as powerful (and as oppressive) as any other source of rule.

Catharine: "Rules truly decided by the people vs. Rules decided by a ruler[.] These are not equal."
-------------
Some of them are. Some of them are not. The origin of the rule does not change the rule.

It is doubtful that the "people" would institute a rule that obligates them to bow to the ruler, although a ruler might institute exactly that kind of rule.

It isn't doubtful that the "people" would institute a rule that obligates them to round up and kill Jews. Or Native Americans.

It ain't the source of the rules that determines their righteousness.

Limbaugh: Service members who support U.S. withdrawal are "phony soldiers"

During the September 26 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh called service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq "phony soldiers." He made the comment while discussing with a caller a conversation he had with a previous caller, "Mike from Chicago," who said he "used to be military," and "believe[s] that we should pull out of Iraq."

Limbaugh told the second caller, whom he identified as "Mike, this one from Olympia,Washington," that "[t]here's a lot" that people who favor U.S. withdrawal "don'tunderstand" and that when asked why the United States should pull out, their only answer is, " 'Well, we just gotta bring the troops home.' ... 'Save the -- keeps the troops safe' or whatever," adding, "[I]t's not possible, intellectually, to follow these people." "Mike" from Olympia replied, "No, it's not, and what's really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers.

They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media." Limbaugh interjected, "The phony soldiers." The caller, who had earlier said, "I am a serving American military, in the Army," agreed, replying, "The phony soldiers." Read more

Free Democracy

A woman attempted to sell on ebay an offer for anyone to live her "white trash life" for 2 days, dealing with her 2 unruly children and taking her anti-depressants that didn't seem to be working. She said that she would use the money from the bidder to spend a couple days of peaceful rest in a roach motel. Ebay removed the auction after it had been up for only 24 hours. Now the feds are reportedly looking into it.

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/354/story/192503.html

Now she says she wasn't really serious. I hope all the publicity from her stunt gets this poor woman some much needed assistance.

Is this thing on, or what?
Janice Brown

"The expectation/obligation to abide by a structure of rules owes nothing to whether the structure of rules originates from above, from beside or from below."

By equating above and below, you have placed them both in the category "outside." Underlying on the other hand means "implicit, in the nature of something though not readily apparent.

Rules originating from within.

"I would argue that the structure of rules always originates from a perceived sense of "from above", even when established by consensus. If it did not, no one would feel obliged to abide by the rules."

This says much about your philosophical outlook. Is Man a mechanism? Must rules be imposed on us for us to feel obliged to abide by them?

Western religions center around a divine being that creates the universe. Eastern philosophies like Taoism see the Universe as growing, an inward to outward manifestation. By taking the position that rules must be imposed from without, you have much in common with the silly Western religious model of the universe.

on right now Janice.

dada: "This says much about your philosophical outlook. Is Man a mechanism? Must rules be imposed on us for us to feel obliged to abide by them?"
---------
"Man" is reared by a mother. Mother imposed rules. "Man" is inculcated with the concept of overarching rule during the earliest time of his intellectual development when lessons are ingrained into his inescapable being.

That's why we have and accept rulers as de rigeur. Blame it on mom. (My fascination with tits fits into this somewhere.)

jbrownboogie

Just reported on my local news. http://www.katc.com

google that, I know I will.

"Man" is reared by a mother. Mother imposed rules. "Man" is inculcated with the concept of overarching rule during the earliest time of his intellectual development when lessons are ingrained into his inescapable being.

That was a good one.

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7139569

they tried to take them all out thou.

Submitted by dada on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:09pm.
That was a good one.
-----------
I had to come up with something to escape the philosophical trap you had set for me.

--"Man" is inculcated with the concept of overarching rule during the earliest time of his intellectual development when lessons are ingrained into his inescapable being.--

1992 Cheney: Deposing Saddam not worth very many lives. A recently-unearthed video from 1992 shows Vice President Dick Cheney predicting the mess that occupying Iraq would create:

If you get into the business of committing U.S. forces on the ground in Iraq, to occupy the place, my guess is I’d probably still have people there today instead of having been able to bring them home…The bottom line question for me was: How many additional American lives is Saddam Hussein worth? The answer: not very damn many.

Watch it:

In 1994, then Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney said deposing Saddam Hussein would have created a “quagmire” that would not be worth the loss of American life. In 2000, when asked why the U.S. didn’t topple Hussein in the Gulf War, Cheney said, “I thought the decision was sound at the time, and I do today.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/27/1992-cheney-deposing-saddam-not-very...

We hope so.

Rules truly decided by the people

vs.

Rules decided by a ruler

These are not equal.

When the people decide the rules the people are rulers by definition. Therefore there is a ruler (the people) therefore no anarchy

the distinction between rule and ruler is moot to begin with - because rule cannot exist on its own without a ruler so we're talking about the same thing here archos and archy are two sides of the same coin

Not exactly about rules and tits, but I reckon that most folks' concept of god (parent figure, source of nourishment and deprivation, pleasure and pain, omniscient, etc....) and the power of praying (crying) never evolve from an infant's concept of his caregiver.

Speaking of families, my mind's still on
Julius and his brothers: Hooray!

Crank: "It ain't the source of the rules that determines their righteousness."

I was looking not at the "rule" as an object and therefore a source, but rather the 'situation' or circumstances or ... environment in which those rules are made. Those are two very different environments. Even if the rules that come out of that process or environment are the same, I would argue that they are often more effective and, more importantly, the 'people' are likely to be ... happier.

I share the opinion of a buddy in san diago, that Marc Maron Rules.

Well...

Never mind.

A Challenge For Lawmakers Who Voted To Attack MoveOn Ad: Will They Now Condemn Limbaugh? »
On September 20, 72 Senators voted for the highly politicized, “bait and switch” resolution that condemned a newspaper ad by MoveOn.org. The amendment, offered by Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX), expressly stated that the Senate would condemn “any effort to attack the honor and integrity” of “all members of the United States Armed Forces“:

(b) Sense of Senate.–It is the sense of the Senate–

(1) to reaffirm its support for all the men and women of the United States Armed Forces, including General David H. Petraeus, Commanding General, Multi-National Force-Iraq;

(2) to strongly condemn any effort to attack the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all the members of the United States Armed Forces; and

(3) to specifically repudiate the unwarranted personal attack on General Petraeus by the liberal activist group Moveon.org.

On his radio show yesterday, right-wing radio host Rush Limbaugh attacked the “honor and integrity” of some members of the Armed Forces. Limbaugh attacked troops who hold a different viewpoint than his own as “phony soldiers.” Iraq war vet Jon Soltz writes that Limbaugh’s comments are directed at “the majority of troops on the ground in Iraq” because they “do not back the President’s failed policy.”

For all the Senators who rushed to make political hay over an empty resolution, the spotlight is on them. Will they now enforce their “sense of the Senate” and condemn Rush Limbaugh?

Yesterday, 341 members of the House voted to pass a companion resolution to that of Cornyn’s. They, too, face the same question.

UPDATE: Crooks and Liars and Dave Johnson have more.

UPDATE II: Greg Sargent notes that during the same radio show, Limbaugh also callously declared “Keep the troops safe. Or whatever.”

UPDATE III: Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) has issued the following statement

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/27/limbaugh-moveon/

Can people overcome this?
Submitted by Alice on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:16pm.
------
Yes, although I believe that all things that follow continue to be influenced by the Skinner Box that was our first three or four years of existence.

(You might recall my oft-repeated opinion that corporal punishment used on young children as a means to bend them to an adult's will is a permanent lesson that violent force is an acceptable method of responding to disagreement?)

Rep. Pallone slams Rush’s ‘phony soldiers’ comment. Yesterday, right wing radio host Rush Limbaugh callously referred to American service members who favor withdrawing from Iraq as “phony soldiers.” Also yesterday, 341 members of the House voted to condemn MoveOn.org and any effort to attack the honor and integrity of all members of the United States Armed Forces. On the floor of the House today, Rep. Frank Pallone (D-NJ) asked whether those who condemned MoveOn would now “hold Rush Limbaugh to the same standard“:

Soldiers may question the war, but it does not mean that they’re any less committed to their mission, and now I wonder if Republicans who showed so much outrage towards MoveOn.org yesterday will hold Rush Limbaugh to the same standard — and I wouldn’t hold your breath.

Watch it:

UPDATE: Rep. Patrick Murphy (D-PA), an Iraq war veteran, released a statement slamming Limbaugh too:

Someone should tell chicken-hawk Rush Limbaugh that the only phonies are those who choose not to serve and then criticize those who do. I served proudly, so did two of my fellow paratroopers in the 82nd Airborne who spoke out and died just weeks ago. Generations of American veterans have worn the uniform with pride and we know it is no contradiction to serve your country and still disagree with the Bush-civilian leadership that mismanaged this war.

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/09/iraq_vet_and_dem_congressman_patri...

Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) forcefully responds here

http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=803

"When the people decide the rules the people are rulers by definition. Therefore there is a ruler (the people) therefore no anarchy"

Ummm...

no.

Submitted by mire on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:20pm.
When the people decide the rules the people are rulers by definition. Therefore there is a ruler (the people) therefore no anarchy
-------------
What about the people who are born into the rules set down before their births?

So far as they are concerned, the rules were created by someone else.

It might work in a neighborhood clubhouse. An ongoing society is a different animal.

?

Doolittle and aides subpoenaed…again. Prosecutors have subpoenaed Rep. John Doolittle (R-CA) and five of his staffers, seeking “virtually every record including legislative records” for the past 11 years, according to Doolittle’s attorney David Barger. Prosecutors are probing connections between Doolittle and disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who is currently serving time in jail. Josh Marshall has more on Doolittle’s legal problems here.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/27/doolittle-and-aides-subpoenaedagain/

Revealed: Sen. Jim Bunning Put Secret Hold On Presidential Records Amendment
Last week, ThinkProgress noted that an anonymous senator had placed a hold on a bill that would restore public access to Presidential records, which President Bush had sealed indefinitely with an executive order in 2001.

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) was originally suspected of being the senator behind the secret hold until a member of his staff contacted ThinkProgress to “state for the record that” Sen. Coburn “is not holding this bill related to presidential records“:

The office of Sen. Tom Coburn would like to state for the record that he is not holding this bill related to presidential records. It is true that he placed a hold on the bill following its passage through the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee in June, but has since worked out his minor concern with the office of Sen. Joseph Lieberman at which time he lifted his hold.

With Coburn out of the running, the mystery of who was attempting to block public access to Presidential records continued. But now, the Sunlight Foundation has revealed that the senatorial hand behind the secret hold is Sen. Jim Bunning (R-KY):

Senator Jim Bunning (R-KY) now has an objection to moving forward with HR 1255, the Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2007. The bill would overturn an outrageous Executive Order that would keep presidential records hidden from public view indefinitely. […]

Now, whether or not he has had the hold all along, Senator Bunning has been forced to take responsibility for the objection. That makes us happy.

Tell Bunning to let the bill come to a vote here or call his office at 202-224-4343.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/27/bunning-secret-hold/

Maybe we should just listen to Cat Chew's songs...
Submitted by Catharine on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 11:35pm.
--------
Maybe we should hold Cat Chew down and beat the soles of her feet until she coughs up what she knows about War Dog's missing name?

*
The Valley Spirit never dies.
It is called the Mysterious Female.
And the doorway of the Mysterious Female
Is the base from which Heaven and Earth spring.
It is there within us all the time.
Draw upon it as you will, it never runs dry.
*
Lao Tzu

Mire: " because rule cannot exist on its own without a ruler so we're talking about the same thing here archos and archy are two sides of the same coin"

Really?

Have you really never as a kid gotten together to play with other kids, and then made up rules of a game that you all played, like... baseball.. and there was no one supervising you kids?

Really?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rules

Crank: "Maybe we should hold Cat Chew down and beat the soles of her feet until she coughs up what she knows about War Dog's missing name?"

***

Woo-hoo!

When you were a kid and making up rules to the game, did you ever notice there was always one kid that took the lead?

Pure anarchy will never survive for long because of the inherent psyche of man. Some have to be leaders (rulers) and others followers.

would be overcoming it...

Cat Schultz

are we piling on Cat Chew! My secret fantasy come true!

What is Limpbough putting in his mouth during that audio? It sounds like he's talking while popping something in his mouth like an M&M or maybe something less sweet.

cat

chew

brings up so many images.

Blavatsky and the Secret Doctrine, by Max Heindel and Intro by Manly Hall...schweet.

Whoo-hoo!!!

http://freedemocracypoliticalvideos.blogspot.com/

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/27/edwards.public.financing/index.ht...

all you have to do is watch kids - if you don't remember from your own childhood - and believe me it's been too long and I don't remember

if you watch kids, even very young, two and three yr olds - yeah of course they can make their own rules and play by them but there is no denying that you can tell immediately if you watch carefully - some are leaders, some are followers - there are some that just naturally come up with the rules and inspire others to follow them

8-)

Blackangus!!

Free Democracy

Mooo!

Love the CD... :)

Golding the sage

All it was was Right-Wing Talk Radio Noise .....

BREAKING NEWS: Electoral initiative backers give up

Plagued by a lack of money, supporters of a statewide initiative drive to change the way California's 55 electoral votes are apportioned, first revealed here by Top of the Ticket in July, are pulling the plug on that effort.

In an exclusive report to appear on this website late tonight and in Friday's print editions, The Times' Dan Morain reports that the proposal to change the winner-take-all electoral vote allocation to one by congressional district is virtually dead with the resignation of key supporters, internal disputes and a lack of funds. The reality is hundreds of thousands of signatures must be gathered by the end of November to get the measure on the June 2008 ballot........

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2007/09/breaking-news-e.html

rules of grammer

---

Leaders and followers suck.

We're not children, we just act like them.

falling asleep sitting up.

8-)

Kind of like Turn on tune in drop out.

If it were and get out of the way.

I consider myself a very astute observer of human behavior. There are absolutely different types of people [e.g. leaders and followers]. And I do believe that people making their own rules is... well difficult at best. However, I think it is what we are all moving towards. No matter how far away we are, don't we want to always be moving towards the light?

Our country was supposedly founded on the rule of "we the people". Of course, it is in actuality far from that. However, I think in principle, we can all agree that we want to move in that direction and further away from a supreme ruler or king.

I have come to understand that the original and true guiding principle of "anarchy" is to rule without a ruler. There are a lot of shades of gray in between here and some utopian version of anarchy. The premise of a utopia is that it is never really reached.

Like many ideas, anarchy has been a victim of a campaign to discredit it's image [not like we haven't seen that kinda thing before]. People who are in the 'ruling' class have long had a vested interest in discrediting anarchy. All the faux punks and assholes hurting people that adopted the 'anarchy' badge, who were long on needing attention, and short on thought, didn't help either.

I called him "Fuck You Cat" .... he never flipped me off. Just always gave me the Fuck You look.

8-)

Just saw Allen Keyes yapping his mouth on PBS ..... and wouldn't shut the fuck up.

,.,.,.,.,.,

*

Without a ruler, we still have the Ratio Legis - Lat: the underlying principle; reasoning; grounds; scheme; theory, doctrine, or science of the law.

The idea of something better. The moral side of the creative imagination.

Submitted by Catharine on Fri, 09/28/2007 - 12:23am.
-----------
It is interesting that you mention utopia and anarchy in the same breath.

I think you are right about utopia; like infinity, it is impossible to experience even if it exists. The same is probably true of anarchy.

Absolute concepts wouldn't be on the far end of the spectrum if they were ordinary and attainable.

:)

-- People who are in the 'ruling' class have long had a vested interest in discrediting anarchy.--

That it was the "ruling" class that coined the term anarchist..for what they called the people who were hanging around the palace expressing dissent....

The same is probably true of anarchy.

Any anarchist worth their salt would agree with you.

The ideal orients you, like a polar star.

"Absolute concepts wouldn't be on the far end of the spectrum if they were ordinary and attainable."

Well, is anarchy truly on the far end of the spectrum or is it just our perception of anarchy that it is on the far end of the spectrum?

Isn't the ideal of "democracy" very similar to the ideal of "anarchy"?

What is in a name...?

I can't believe I am saying all this about anarchy.

Confession: In my political 'discussions' [a polite euphemism] with dada, I play the part of the 'Republican'.

?

sorry about that. I'm a little tipsy tonight.

"That it was the "ruling" class that coined the term anarchist..for what they called the people who were hanging around the palace expressing dissent...."

and bumped into dada.

Meanwhile that Marx is off predicting revolution. He thinks it's inevitable, like the turning of the Seasons.

And that democratic ideal seems kind of far away sometimes, don't it?

Sometimes I think that maybe it is detrimental to our health to care to much about 'politics'.

It's like watching bad news all the time. Unless you are really good at being objective, remaining in the audience, not becoming a 'player on the stage'... you will get sick from the anger.

Despite the fact that there are so many terrible injustices going on around us, we can not live inside every single injustice at every moment. The anger will burn us up.

Submitted by Catharine on Fri, 09/28/2007 - 12:46am.
Isn't the ideal of "democracy" very similar to the ideal of "anarchy"?
--------------
Yes. In its purest form it is nonexistent. That's why existing democracies have adjectives attached to them. "Peoples Democratic Republic" seems to be a popular one. (I don't think that one could have a Non-Peoples Democratic Republic, though.)

Kinda like Clear Skies Initiative.. or No Child Left Behind?

Sounds like denial, but really, I got a rare chance tonight to catch a buzz and watch dictators in training on PBS. What a hoot! Just ask Fernando, he was there! It does not get me angry anymore. I'm a comedian at heart and enjoy ripping into these asshats.

In nobil sangue vita umile e queta,

Ed in alto intelletto un puro core

Frutto senile in sul giovenil fibre,

E in aspetto pensoso anima lieta.

-

Tranquil and meek her life, noble her blood;

A lofty mind; a pure heart filled with grace;

Mature the fruitage, tender still the bud;

A joyful spirit in a thoughtful face

Really glad she is taking up this issue.

She could help make a huge difference.

I'm turning into a pumpkin...

Gotta go.

Nite.

with 13 bots

zarbisfazz saquemos!

forgot to turn off my translator... )

To General Thaddeus Kosciusko.
Washington, April 2, 1802.

http://books.google.com/books?id=4dnSClToke0C&pg=PA309

...They are disarming executive patronage and
preponderance, by putting down one-half the offices
of the United States, which are no longer necessary.
These economies have enabled them to suppress all
the internal taxes, and still to make such provision
for the payment of their public debt as to discharge
that in eighteen years. They have lopped off a parasite
limb, planted by their predecessors on their
judiciary body for party purposes; they are opening
the doors of hospitality to fugitives from the oppressions
of other countries; and we have suppressed all
those public forms and ceremonies which tended to
familiarize the public eye to the harbingers of another
form of government. The people are nearly all
united; their quondam leaders, infuriated with the
sense of their impotence, will soon be seen or heard
only in the newspapers, which serve as chimneys to
carry off noxious vapors and smoke, and all is now
tranquil, firm and well, as it should be. I add no
signature because unnecessary for you. God bless
you, and preserve you still for a season of usefulness
to your country.

Now that's just downright poetic. Sounds like the kind of thing you'd write high on opium in Paris.

Submitted by davidswanson on Fri, 2007-09-28 00:13. Congress
In the Politico you'll find an article that begins:

Dems Could Do Far More to End Iraq War
By Jim VandeHei and John F. Harris

The vast majority of Democrats in Congress are powerfully clear about what they think about the war in Iraq. It is the greatest strategic blunder of a generation.

It is a lost cause. Above all, it is immoral - with more men and women dying each day for a war that many Democrats concluded years ago was a terrible mistake.

But clarity gives way to muddle when you pose a simple question to Democrats: After eight months in power on Capitol Hill, why have you not done more to end the war?

Most answers come down to some version of “There’s nothing we can do.”

“If you don’t have the votes, you don’t have the votes,” Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.) said in an interview. He was citing all the familiar arithmetic.

It takes 60 votes to end debate in the Senate, two-thirds of both chambers to override a presidential veto.

These answers are correct - and misleading almost to the point of deception.

But so is the rest of the article which suggests that all Democrats can do is force floor fights, protest in each other's back yards, tie themselves to posts, etc. Sorry, but this buys into the same basic lie it purports to expose.

It is a lie that Congress must pass a bill to end the occupation of Iraq. The occupation can be ended with an announcement by Congressional leaders that there will be no more funding. Any proposal to fund it can be blocked by 41 senators. Bush has plenty of money for withdrawal and could be given more for that exclusive purpose. When your television tells you the Democrats need 60 or 67 senators to end the occupation, your television is lying to you.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid could if they wanted announce today that the House and Senate will no longer bring to a vote any bills to fund anything other than withdrawal. They have many colleagues already on board with that position, not to mention two thirds of the country. It would take 218 signatures on a discharge petition to force a bill to the floor of the House without Pelosi's approval. It is unlikely enough Democrats would oppose their party to fund Bush's war in that way. In the Senate, Reid alone could refuse to bring a bill to the floor, or another senator could put a secret hold on a bill. And, while not all bills can be filibustered (appropriations bills can be, budget reconciliation bills cannot), you can hardly claim you need 60 votes to get past a filibuster without admitting that with only 41 you could launch your own filibuster and that with 51 you could defeat any bill. Once you understand the goal as blocking bills rather than passing them, the number of allies you need shrinks dramatically.

Ofcouse they do forget to mention that the Rethugs aren't doing anything to stop the war,either..
Link-afterdowningstreet.org

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

Submitted by davidswanson on Fri, 2007-09-28 00:25. Congress
By David Swanson

The Speaker is delaying the next war money vote until January 2008. Even the corporate media finds that significant, while failing to report on yesterday's vote of billions more for the occupation of Iraq in a Continuing Resolution - the vote that made the delay possible. Pelosi no doubt hopes that by January she will be able to argue that the next presidency is only a year away, so there's really no point in ending the occupation. This will not only be predictable, it will also be disgusting since tens of thousands of lives will be lost in the process, and it will not only be predictable and disgusting, but it will also be laughable since Clinton, Obama, and Edwards have now said they'll likely keep the occupation going until 2013 (practically guaranteeing a Republican win). So waiting until 2009 (no matter who wins) only gets us 4 more years to wait. We're through waiting, Nancy. We're through RIGHT NOW.
Link-afterdowningstreet.org

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

... ;)

The problem with the lefties is that they never had a plan. Bush sucks is not a plan. Once in charge the lefties has to come with workable alternatives. In other words it was time to lay our their plan. They had none! Bush sucks was the only plan they had.

What is the leftie plan for Iraq? No timetable for withdrawal! Ain't that a hoot? Once in the debate and forced to lay our a plan, the lefties have no plan so they spout the Bush plan for Iraq. Hahahahahahaha.

No plan for Iraq. No plan for Iran. No plan for the Mideast. Cindy learned this lesson. Once the Dems had both the house and the Senate, Cindy ran up to Congress and shouted "Bush Sucks" so what do we do. Hahahahahaha. Congress went "huh?" what do you mean do?

actually if you had been paying attention or were capable of rational thought longer than a 15 second rush limbaugh soundbite you would know that bush sucks is a plan.

its just not a plan that many on this blog would agree with, but it goes something like this. remind the world how far the united states has fallen under neocon rule. remind everyone that the reason their life sucks can be traced directly to george bush and the neocons. remind them over and over and over that because bush sucks their lives suck. then remind them that they can change all that in 2008 by voting every miserable freedom hating american hating republican out of office so that we can create a better america with a majority in congress and control of the white house.

that is the bush sucks plan.

Hahahahahahahahaha. Then what Leftie? Hahahahahahahahahaha. You are right back to square one, if you win you got to announce YOUR plan. Hahahahahahahahaha. And ya got no plan.

that their only plan is Bush,and He Sucks Severely!

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

our secret weapon (don't tell anyone)

remember, its a secret, just between us.

:)

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

.
Democratic strategery seems to give Bush enough rope to continue hanging himself,
but how many more soldiers will die because they rubber-stamped this crook?

"Hello to our friends and fans in domestic surveillance."

Had to get his foolishness in b4 school.

Our plan is to straighten out the mess bush made with no real plan for Iraq.

Our plan is to install oversight to the government so that future administrations don't make a mess of this country and the world.

Our plan is to bring jobs and security back.

Our plan is to put restrictions on Corporations that have had their way with the people of the nation and the world and have done nothing to help the nation improve.

Our plan is to restore our standing with the world again.

Our plan is to remove our soldiers from the mess bush has made in Iraq and get them out of harm's way.

Our plan is to reduce the deficit and improve the economy

Please feel free to add on.

you're doin just fine toni

HOw?

perhaps you've seen the following story:

OK to Spy on Kidnappers Took 9 Hours

WASHINGTON (AP) — Last spring, when insurgents apparently captured three American soldiers in Iraq, it took the U.S. government more than nine hours to begin surveillance on the kidnappers' electronic communications.

The bulk of that time was spent on internal legal deliberations by Bush administration lawyers and intelligence officials, according to a timeline from the office of the director of national intelligence.

The delay was a centerpiece of the Bush administration's argument to Congress in late July that the law requiring court orders to conduct electronic surveillance inside the United States was dangerously restrictive.

Congress subsequently approved an amendment to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that removed the legal barriers to intercepting foreign communications.

=======================================================================

as i read it, this was the centerpiece in why we needed to rewrite the fisa legislation to spy on americans in america.

now, maybe i'm wrong about this, but i always thought the nsa and cia had free reign to spy on anybody outside the borders of the united states. in essence that was the job of the nsa. more to the point, we are engaged in an occupation in iraq and as distasteful as bush's war is, i would still expect them to be using all the resources at their disposal and to be acting as quickly as possible.

that being the case why does the situation being cited have anything to do with fisa, other than its dramatic and provides a way to say the troops are being harmed if you don't do what we want.

so, what am i missing, or is this just more lies and political theatre?

by Naomi Wolf

Thu Sep 27, 2007 at 05:05:53 PM EDT

(Cross-posted at Firedoglake.)

The New York Times reported today that Blackwater, the infamous organization that has been accused of killing civilians in Iraq, "has been involved in a far higher rate of shootings while guarding American diplomats in Iraq than other security firms." A mercenary firm in Iraq with an itchy trigger finger is bad enough. But it now appears that Blackwater’s activities may be massively expanded -- and not in Iraq.

In little noticed news, Blackwater, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and Arinc were recently awarded a collective $15 billion -- yes, billion -- from the Pentagon to conduct global counter-narcotics operations. This means that Blackwater can be deployed to engage with citizens on a whole new level of intimacy anywhere around the world -- including here at home. What is scarier than scary is that Blackwater’s overall plans are to do more and more of its armed and dangerous ‘security’ operations on U.S. soil.

More: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/27/163547/214

The S.S. was established in 1925 as a personal guard unit for Nazi leader Adolf Hitler."Die Schutz-Staffel der NSDAP" (shield squadron of the Nazi party) Under the leadership of Heinrich Himmler between 1929 and 1945, the SS grew from a small paramilitary formation to become one of the largest and most powerful organizations in Nazi Germany. The Nazis regarded the SS as an elite unit, the party's "Praetorian Guard," with all SS personnel selected on the principles of racial purity and unconditional loyalty to the Nazi Party.

In contrast to the black-uniformed Allgemeine-SS, the political wing of the SS, the military wing, the Waffen-SS evolved into a second German army within the Wehrmacht, operating in tandem with the regular German army, the Heer. The Waffen-SS gained a reputation as extraordinary soldiers, but also for notorious brutality against civilians and prisoners of war. Its units helped wipe out resistance by Polish Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and slaughtered a number of U.S. prisoners of war near the Belgian town of Malmedy during the Battle of the Bulge in 1944.

The SS was distinguished from the German military, Nazi party, and German state officials by its own SS rank structure, SS unit insignia, and SS uniforms. The all-black SS uniform was designed by SS-Oberführer Prof. Dr. Karl Diebitsch and Walter Heck (graphic designer) and made by Hugo Boss, some workers being prisoners of war forced into labor.[1]

As the Nazi party monopolized political power in Germany, key government functions such as law enforcement were simply absorbed into the SS, while many SS organizations became the de facto government agencies. To maintain the political power of the Nazi party, the SS was given authority to establish and run the Sicherheitsdienst (SD), the security and intelligence service, and the Geheime Staatspolizei (Gestapo), the secret police, effectively putting the SS above the law.

Sometimes it seems that the only way to make sense of the Bush administration is to imagine that it’s a vast experiment concocted by mad political scientists who want to see what happens if a nation systematically ignores everything we’ve learned over the past few centuries about how to make a modern government work.

Thus, the administration has abandoned the principle of a professional, nonpolitical civil service, stuffing agencies from FEMA to the Justice Department with unqualified cronies. Tax farming — giving individuals the right to collect taxes, in return for a share of the take — went out with the French Revolution; now the tax farmers are back.

And so are mercenaries, whom Machiavelli described as “useless and dangerous” more than four centuries ago.

As far as I can tell, America has never fought a war in which mercenaries made up a large part of the armed force. But in Iraq, they are so central to the effort that, as Peter W. Singer of the Brookings Institution points out in a new report, “the private military industry has suffered more losses in Iraq than the rest of the coalition of allied nations combined.”

And, yes, the so-called private security contractors are mercenaries. They’re heavily armed. They carry out military missions, but they’re private employees who don’t answer to military discipline. On the other hand, they don’t seem to be accountable to Iraqi or U.S. law, either. And they behave accordingly.

More: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/28/opinion/28krugman.html

g'morning yourll

in ANY sense of the word is where we originated...and all forms of since are it's bastard children...Simply look back into time when we were nomadic tribes of odd looking apes...

Even an instant democracy where everyone votes on eveything will tread upon the rights of the individual...Do you really want to be ruled by "pop culture"?...Then it simply becomes he who propogandizes best rules...That'll be the guy with the most followers/wealth...Also known as a "king"...Let's pray they're philosophers eh?

"It ain't the source of the rules that determines their righteousness."

The wisest thing written on this entire thread.

It's not 'rules' that are the bane of humanity, it's not how those rules are derived, it's humanity itself.

Long past time to teach the rat how to make better rules and in so doing make him a better ruler...But it's the maze that determines what the rat needs to and will learn more than anything...and those walls aren't political or philosophical...they're financial.

One thing is wired into all of us before anything else...survival...and money means survival in this world.

Change that.

Blackwater Founder and West Michigan Native Funds Right-wing through Foundation (September 27, 2006)

Blackwater USA founder and West Michigan native Erik Prince funds a variety of rightwing and religious causes according to a review of grants awarded by Prince’s Freiheit Foundation. Prince, who’s Blackwater has drawn considerable attention for its work in Iraq, post-Katrina New Orleans, and Colombia, also has strong ties to the economic and religious right both through the contributions of his Freiheit Foundation as well as his parents, Edgar and Elsa Prince, who are prominent supporters of the religious right both in West Michigan and on the national level. Additionally, Erik Prince’s sister is Betsy DeVos, who married into one of West Michigan’s most well-known rightwing families and has made been a career organizer for rightwing and Republican causes. While several reports on Prince have made some mention of his lineage and his political contributions, there has been no detailed examinations of his “philanthropy.”

More: http://www.mediamouse.org/features/092706black.php

am Italian)

last nights conversation on anarchy was very interesting and I am fully aware that the thread could go on forever on that theme that circles in an infinite loop upon itself being part utopian philosophy part linguistic riddle and part much else. But if I should conclude I would say my favorite kind of "anarchy" is the one expoused in the early 20th century by italian (and other) immigrant workers like Sacco and Vanzetti (one of two was an anarchist, I don't remember which one, but i know he was the one from northern italy) this could more properly be described now as european style social democratic principles - the main point was social justice and elimination of classes - they were not shying away from violence recognizing that violence was everywhere around them but violence is not what they were about.

anyway, somehow the musings on anarchy got blurred in my mind as the night proceeded with another post concerning a sweet concoction of frozen fruit cognac and nutella and another comment further down claiming "my diet won't permit it!"

well, that posed quite a dilemma as i was fighting the sweet craving and determination to "i'll for sure try that tomorrow" with "actually my diet will too not permit it" - this intereference in the discussion on anarchy was troubling and can't say that the two conflicting thoughts were not undermining each other's arguments!

So, to conclude: I am in favor of no rules and particularly no diet rules and therefore yes to nutella

Army plans to increase size of the force more quickly

The US Army is making plans to expand its active and reserve forces by 74,000 troops in four years instead of five to ease stress on the force, the service's secretary said Thursday.

Tent City to hold AWOL soldiers

Tent City will begin holding soldiers convicted of being absent without leave.

Because Tent City is a federally approved confinement facility, Arizona Statute requires that the jail accept military. Petrenko makes the decision on where to send the inmates.

A short three minute video produced as part of the film Iraq For Sale, which looks at war profiteering on the part of corporations such as Blackwater USA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfgt3kmv-Hg

when the money votes with you instead of against you?

BREAKING: GOP's CA Electoral College Initiative/Scam Dead, Says LA Times

Plagued by a lack of money, supporters of a statewide initiative drive to change the way California's 55 electoral votes are apportioned, first revealed here by Top of the Ticket in July, are pulling the plug on that effort.

In an exclusive report to appear on this website late tonight and in Friday's print editions, The Times' Dan Morain reports that the proposal to change the winner-take-all electoral vote allocation to one by congressional district is virtually dead with the resignation of key supporters, internal disputes and a lack of funds.

to start tasering teens that don't sign up for the military yet?

yup spotted that problem yesterday...and as i said they probably are going to be kidnapping my older kids for the increase....coz i see no one signing up in my district!

UPDATE 1-U.S. Senate agrees to raise U.S. credit limit

WASHINGTON, Sept 27 (Reuters) - With the U.S. government fast approaching its current $8.965 trillion credit limit, the Senate on Thursday gave final congressional approval of an $850 billion increase in U.S. borrowing authority.

The Senate voted 53-42 to raise the debt ceiling to $9.815 trillion, the fifth increase in the U.S. credit limit since President George W. Bush took office in January 2001. The U.S. House of Representatives approved the higher debt limit earlier this year as part of the overall budget resolution and the legislation now goes to Bush for his signature.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=bondsNews&story...

take a bow
mire

GOP hopefuls assailed for debate no-show

The four leading Republican candidates — former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Fred Thompson, Arizona Sen. John McCain and Mitt Romney — cited scheduling conflicts in saying they could not attend the debate at Morgan State University, a historically black college.

The forum, moderated by talk show host Tavis Smiley and featuring black and Hispanic journalists as panelists, was to air live on PBS.

More Blacks and Hispanics Live in Prison Cells Than in College Dorms

More than three times as many black people live in prison cells as in college dorms, the government said in a report to be released Thursday.

The ratio is only slightly better for Hispanics, at 2.7 inmates for every Latino in college housing. Among non-Hispanic whites, more than twice as many live in college housing as in prison or jail.

The numbers, driven by men, do not include college students who live off campus. Previously released census data show that black and Hispanic college students commuters and those in dorms far outnumber black and Hispanic prison inmates.

Nevertheless, civil rights advocates said it is startling that blacks and Hispanics are more likely to live in prison cells than in college dorms.

very.

White House shrugs off Iraq division measure

The White House on Thursday shrugged off US Senate approval of a Bosnia-style plan to divide Iraq on ethnic and religious lines, saying the non-binding measure would not change US policy.

"It's not something that shifts policy in Iraq," spokesman Tony Fratto said one day after the lawmakers backed what backers touted as the sole hope of forging a stable federal state out of deadly sectarian strife.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/White_House_shrugs_off_Iraq_divisio_0927200...

U.S. to Allow Key Detainees to Request Lawyers
14 Terrorism Suspects Given Legal Forms at Guantanamo

Fourteen "high-value" terrorism suspects who were transferred to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, from secret CIA prisons last year have been formally offered the right to request lawyers, a move that could allow them to join other detainees in challenging their status as enemy combatants in a U.S. appellate court.

The move, confirmed by Defense Department officials, will allow the suspects their first contact with anyone other than their captors and representatives of the International Committee of the Red Cross since they were taken into custody.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/27/AR200709...

Mitt Romney's Blackwater Connection

Boston, MA - Governor Mitt Romney today announced that Cofer Black, a former top counterterrorism official at the Central Intelligence Agency and State Department, has joined his campaign for President of the United States. Black will serve as Senior Adviser for counterterrorism and national security issues."

Jena 6 Defendant Released on Bail

JENA, La. (AP) - A black teenager whose prosecution in the beating of a white classmate prompted a massive civil rights protest here walked out of a courthouse Thursday after a judge ordered him freed.

Mychal Bell's release on $45,000 bail came hours after a prosecutor confirmed he will no longer seek an adult trial for the 17-year-old. Bell, one of the teenagers known as the Jena Six, still faces trial as a juvenile in the December beating in this small central Louisiana town.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070927/D8RU3FV80.html

nice apology, sincerity reminiscent of the best of bushworld. eek!

have the politicians

& the thugs

Carlyle starts to buy up US phone systems

Verizon Faces New $20 Billion Suit over NSA Spying Complicity

Upping the ante in what may be a high-stakes legal battle, an Upstate New York lawyer filed a $20 billion class-action lawsuit against Verizon last week, charging that the company violated customer confidentiality in aiding warrantless eavesdropping by a federal spy agency.

US sues Maine officials for probe on Verizon, NSA

The U.S. government sued Maine officials on Tuesday to block their demand that Verizon disclose whether it gave the government's spying program access to its customer data, documents showed.
"The defendant state officers' attempts to obtain such information are invalid under the Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution and are preempted by the United States Constitution and various federal statutes," the lawsuit said.

Verizon CEO scoffs at technology hopes

"Why in the world would you think your (cell) phone would work in your house?" he asked. "The customer has come to expect so much. They want it to work in the elevator, they want it to work in the basement."

Verizon Reverses Itself on Abortion Messages

Saying it had the right to block “controversial or unsavory” text messages, Verizon Wireless last week rejected a request from Naral Pro-Choice America, the abortion rights group, to make Verizon’s mobile network available for a text-message program.

Who business is betting on

In a wide-open race, candidates are scrambling to get CEO endorsements. Our exclusive Fortune survey goes behind the scenes from Wall Street to Silicon Valley to find surprising alliances and discover how they were forged.

no Ahem today? whazup?

im so excited and i just cant hide it.....yay!

Forty percent of Americans have never lived when there wasn't a Bush or a Clinton in the White House.

mire enjoying a nutella bath

Top contenders dodgy on Iraq pullout

HANOVER, New Hampshire – The leading Democratic presidential hopefuls conceded they cannot guarantee to withdraw all US combat troops from Iraq by 2013, the end of the next president’s first term.
“I think it’s hard to project four years from now,” said Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois in the opening moments of Wednesday night’s campaign debate in the nation’s first primary state.
“It is very difficult to know what we’re going to be inheriting,” added Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.
“I cannot make that commitment,” said former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina.

the grunt & the thugs that the right wing have

um,...

the blog-trolls are even less significant than before

thanks, dr. blackwater

(or how i learnt to realise the trolls are even less significant than before)

there are different connotations to each exclamation...A hrm is not an ahem.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki rejected a U.S. Senate proposal calling for the partitioning of Iraq. “Iraqis are eager for Iraq’s unity. … Dividing Iraq is a problem and a decision like that would be a catastrophe,” he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070928/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

An initial State Department report on a Sept. 16 shootout in Baghdad involving Blackwater USA says the private security contractors were “ambushed near the traffic circle and returned fire before fleeing the scene,” a depiction of events that contradicts Iraqi findings. Separately, State has confirmed that Blackwater personnel have been involved in 56 shootings while guarding U.S. officals this past year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/27/AR200709...

The State Department said yesterday that “the first American oil contract in Iraq,” between the Hunt Oil Company and the Kurdistan Regional Government,” is counterproductive towards the U.S. goal of “strengthening the country’s central government.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/28/world/middleeast/28iraq.html?ref=world

the hell if i knew the language!!!

Scooter Libby’s prison pseudonym lives on. In the season premiere of NBC’s My Name Is Earl last night, the show opened with Earl talking about his life in prison. He then mentioned that for the next two years, he’d be known as inmate 28301-016 — the same number that the Bureau of Prisons issued to “Scooter” Libby.

http://yazoostreet.blogspot.com/2007/09/my-name-is-scooter.html

Democrats know the war can't end

THE Democratic presidential debate in New Hampshire on Wednesday was remarkable in that it revealed a truth that the major Democratic candidates would rather not talk about.

While Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are demanding that President Bush set a timetable for bringing the American troops home from Iraq by January 2009, they refused to commit themselves to any timetable should they become president.

Tim Russert of NBC asked Obama: "Will you pledge that by January 2013, the end of your first term more than five years from now, there will be no U.S. troops in Iraq?"

Obama replied: "I think it's hard to project four years from now, and I think it would be irresponsible. . . . I believe that we should have all our troops out by 2013, but I don't want to make promises not knowing what the situation's going to be three or four years out."

If it is irresponsible to promise to get the troops out by January 2013, why would it be responsible to promise to get them out by January 2009?

Clinton gave just as disingenuous a response: "Well, Tim, it is my goal to have all troops out by the end of my first term. But I agree with Barack. It is very difficult to know what we're going to be inheriting. You know, we do not know, walking into the White House in January 2009, what we're going to find. What is the state of planning for withdrawal?"

Clinton had no problem in January demanding of President Bush: "We expect him to extricate our country from this before he leaves office."

Democrats know that Iraq is central to the war on terrorism. No responsible person can promise to leave Iraq by any date without surrendering that nation -- perhaps the region -- to terrorists.

But Clinton and Obama play to the MoveOn crowd. Neither dared to condemn an ad by MoveOn that insinuated that Gen. David Petraeus betrayed his country.

What kind of person runs for commander in chief while allowing someone who has served in the military throughout his adult life to be smeared like that?

MoveOn raises millions for Democrats. Clinton and Obama want that money. They keep playing the timetable game, knowing that they could never as president support such a withdrawal.

Russert is to be congratulated for getting Clinton and Obama to admit this.

Cheney to address top secret conservative policy group Jason Rhyne
Published: Friday September 28, 2007

An ultra-secret conservative group -- so secret that members don't even use the group's name in communications -- will feature Vice President Dick Cheney as a speaker at a meeting in Utah today.

"Cheney will address the fall meeting of the Council for National Policy, a group whose self-described mission is to promote 'a free-enterprise system, a strong national defense and support for traditional Western values," according to the Salt Lake City Tribune.

Founded in 1981 by Tim LaHaye, the co-author of the popular post-apocalyptic Christian-themed Left Behind books, the group holds confidential meetings three times a year attended by a small but powerful cadre of top conservatives.

"The media should not know when or where we meet or who takes part in our programs, before of after a meeting," one of the group's rules reads, according to a New York Times profile of the organization in 2004.

"The membership list is 'strictly confidential," said the Times. "Guests may attend 'only with the unanimous approval of the executive committee."

"In e-mail messages to one another," the paper continued, "members are instructed not to refer to the organization by name, to protect against leaks."

"We do not lobby Congress, support candidates, or issue public policy statements on controversial issues," the group states on its website. Members "meet to share the best information available on national and world problems, know one another on a personal basis, and collaborate in achieving their shared goals."

"Czech Republic President Václav Klaus is also expected to address the Council for National Policy's meeting in downtown Salt Lake City," the Tribune reports, adding that GOP presidential hopeful Mitt Romney will also be in Utah, but did not respond to the paper about whether or not he would be attending the meeting.

"Many current and former members politely said they would prefer not to speak on the organization's behalf," ABC's Marc Ambinder said in an earlier behind-the-scenes piece focusing on the group. "Those who did respond to telephone and e-mail messages declined to talk about their interest in the organization. More than a dozen did not respond at all."

http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Cheney_to_address_top_secret_conservative...

In the words of the infamous Nobs, 'I call bullshit.'

against deployment of weapons in space?...

Russia Promises Retaliation if Weapons Deployed in Space

MOSCOW — The chief of Russia's space forces on Thursday said Moscow would have to retaliate if others deploy weapons in space — a stern warning to the United States.

While Col.-Gen. Vladimir Popovkin did not name any specific country, he was clearly referring to U.S. plans for space-based weapons, which the Kremlin had vociferously opposed.

"We don't want to wage a war in space, we don't want to gain dominance in space, but we won't allow any other nation to dominate space," Popovkin said in televised remarks. "If any country deploys weapons in space, then the laws of warfare are such that retaliatory weapons are certain to appear."

President Vladimir Putin has criticized U.S. plans for space-based weapons, saying it could trigger a new arms race.

When China tested an anti-satellite missile in January, Putin said that the move was a response to U.S. plans for space-based weapons.

'Combat Outpost Shocker:' The base that could spark Iran conflict David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Friday September 28, 2007

The US military is building a base in Iraq just five miles from the border with Iran to prevent cross-border arms smuggling. The base, called "Combat Outpost Shocker," will be manned by 200 soldiers, along with agents from the US Border Patrol, and will monitor truck traffic and cellphone conversations among Shi'ite pilgrims.

"Obviously, [the Iranians] probably won't be very happy about it," Col. Mark Mueller, the commander of the border transition team, told ABC News.

Border security has been essentially ignored since the US invasion of Iraq, but the establishment of the base at this time is also seen as targeting what the US claims are Iranian attempts to smuggle advanced arms to Iraqi insurgents. The Associated Press, however, concludes that it is likely to be a drop in the bucket when dealing with a 900-mile long border where smuggling is a centuries-old way of life.

In a telephone conversation with RAW STORY earlier this month, Steve Clemons, director of the American Strategy Program at New America Foundation and publisher of The Washington Note said his gravest concern surrounding Iran was that the US might seize on an accidental incident -- such as a collision between a US and Iranian ship or a border skirmish between Iraq and Iran -- as a casus belli.

"A mistake in the Gulf where ships collide or US soldiers are attacked or Israel fires a low-level cruise missile attack against Natanz or there's a border skirmish between Iraq and Iran that results in the death of a high-ranking military or diplomatic official – any of these could spark a conflict," he said.

He also says Bush has deviated from a Cheney-laid track to launch a first-strike on Iran, citing, as examples, frustrations that the vice president's aides are airing, a conversation with a journalist who sat in on a December 2006 strategy meeting, and private conversations with high-level foreign policy players.

The following video is from ABC's World News, broadcast on September 25.

http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Combat_Outpost_Shocker_The_base_that_0928...

Treaty law is "the supreme law of the land"...Pardon me...I've found the loophole...A president can terminate or suspend a treaty...That would include of course the Geneva conventions...If there is no termination clause or if it's in response to a breach...Scary.

Outer Space Treaty

The Outer Space Treaty, formally known as the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies, is a treaty that forms the basis of international space law. The treaty was opened for signature in the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union on January 27, 1967, and entered into force on October 10, 1967. As of January 2006, 98 countries are states-parties to the treaty, while another 27 have signed the treaty but have not yet completed ratification.

The Outer Space Treaty represents the basic legal framework of international space law. Among its principles, it bars States Parties to the Treaty from placing nuclear weapons or any other weapons of mass destruction in orbit of Earth, installing them on the Moon or any other celestial body, or to otherwise station them in outer space. It exclusively limits the use of the Moon and other celestial bodies to peaceful purposes and expressly prohibits their use for testing weapons of any kind, conducting military maneuvers, or establishing military bases, installations, and fortifications (Art.IV).

British Petroleum, ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell, Chevron Corp????

What you lack, I have been told, is a plan and a candidate.

I take it you're a Democrat?

Submitted by toniD on Fri, 09/28/2007 - 9:51am.
...In the season premiere of NBC’s My Name Is Earl last night...he’d be known as inmate 28301-016 — the same number that the Bureau of Prisons issued to “Scooter” Libby.
--------------
Remember when I stuck my neck out by stating that My Name Is Earl is a well-written network sitcom? Remember? Remember?

Ah, screw it. Who cares? It's not important to anyone other than comedy geeks.

Shake Up Coming in New Hampshire?
Interesting quotes from the Times of London:
"There is going to be surprise -- there always is. Someone leading now in the polls will not necessarily be leading in January."

-- Ray Buckley, Chairman of the New Hampshire Democratic Party.

"The Democratic race is about to become more competitive here. People want to see a contest, they want to see candidates tested. They don’t like the idea that one of them is walking away with it."

-- Fergus Cullen, Chairman of the New Hampshire Republican Party.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections...

Cornyn May Be Vulnerable
A new Research 2000 poll found that Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) is currently leading a relatively unknown challenger -- Rick Noriega (D) -- 51%-35% in his 2008 reelection bid. However, only 40% of constituents said they wanted to reelect the Senator, while 35% said they were ready for someone new. This leaves a possible opening for Noriega to exploit. Cornyn is one of the more unpopular Republican Senators and has been made a target by Democrats for 2008.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2007/09/28/cornyn_may_be_vulnerable.ht...

the plan?

what plan is that, asshole

the surge?

maybe you should have listened to shinseki, asshole

back in the day of "flowers & chocolate"

military? whats that mean??? more preemptive wars????

//An ultra-secret conservative group -- so secret that members don't even use the group's name in communications -- will feature Vice President Dick Cheney as a speaker at a meeting in Utah today.//

hmmm...

and one of the naive arguments i hear that 9/11 couldn't have been a false flag operation is...

"someone would have spoken up"

named names

(yeah)
.
.
.
(right)

...the cops in order to arrest people for whom they had no warrents...

Nassau top cop: Department 'misled' in raids

Nassau County's top law enforcement officer said yesterday that his department was "misled" by federal authorities who conducted raids in Latino communities this week, arresting 82 people who were mostly undocumented immigrants.

Police Commissioner Lawrence Mulvey said the police department would no longer cooperate with federal immigration officials unless they are clear in the intentions of their operations and share information.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement requested that police officers be present during the execution of arrest warrants for Nassau County residents who were affiliated with gangs, Mulvey said. Of those arrested, Mulvey said none were subjects of the warrants.

"There will be no future cooperation unless these issues are ironed out," Mulvey said. "Arrest warrants of gang members is something we would support and assist with, but it should be done with coordination. "

Has the axis of evil gone away? Has terrorism ended? Has radical Islam been defeated?

is there still more oil for the corporations to take? are there still 3rd world countries to exploit? is the public still incredibly fucking stupid?

that the president is still required to notify congress of any termination or suspension of a treaty...I don't remember hearing about any such notification so the treaty would still be valid...and the law would still stand...but what does this president care for contempt of congress when they won't even charge him...

Nor will it ever so long as there is money to be made on war.

looking forward to the cleaned up audio/video of the seder/maron mashup that was announced yesterday

and thanks to bush...

no

(it's worse)

THAT'S THE PLAN!!

How goes it for the Judean People's Front?

Or are you the People's Front of Judea....or the Popular Front for Judea?!?!??

LOL!--------Gare

that's a big no-no. Nuclear weapons are a major threat to humans if stored in space. Not so much to multinational companies thou. And while we are talking about space - what the hell is this? Has anyone come up with where the hoax originated or what astronomers they are talking about regarding this video?

During routine observations of the cosmos, Italian astronomers have recently spotted and tracked on video an Unidentified Flying Object or UFO. - Sep 26, 2007

I do and I commended you...if you remember. However, I must point out that

"Earl" did win the Emmy for writing...so it really wasn't much of a secret that

it is a well written sitcom.

The debate the other night would leave one asking, why do the leading Democrat Candidates not see war in the same light that you see war?

and now ladies and gentleman we have the porcupine---the porcupine oh yes the porcupine---the only animal in the world that has 365 PRICKS!!!!YOU AXIS OF EVIL....

Who says they don't?...What they want to do and what they can do are two different things.

//why do the leading Democrat Candidates not see war in the same light that you see war?//

i know
i know
because we're silly...

you may now return to the peanut gallery, war-dog

I still think you're a dipshit and you really are never going to fit

it here. I know it's your dream to be accepted here...to become one

of us....but it will never happen. Sorry to lay this on you my good

buddy but you're an asshole and these folks are going to continue to

ignore you.

you're the unfunniest troll alive

(lol)

Notes From a Gadfly, by Jonathan Rauch

http://tinyurl.com/etmhh
Thursday, September 27, 2007

The letter to the Washington Post that follows was written as an
experiment, to see just how low the editors would sink in their efforts
to block a book containing evidence and analysis that they do not want
to reach the public. The letter is a response to a crude and vulgar
diatribe, in the form of a review of my collection Interventions. In
response, I wrote a point-by-point refutation of each charge, a
straightforward matter, as the editors doubtless understand. The letter
was sent to the Post immediately, altogether four times, with a request
for acknowledgment of receipt. Unpublished, no acknowledgment of
receipt. Two weeks after the review appeared, Sept. 16, the Post did
publish two letters responding to it. The letters were critical of the
review, but acceptable by the standards of the editors, because they
left the lies and slanders standing -- the authors could have had no way
to refute them without a research project.

I think it is fair to take the editors' silence to demonstrate that they
know precisely what they are doing, and are too cowardly even to
acknowledge receipt.

-- Noam Chomsky

*

Editor
Washington Post

Jonathan Rauch's review of my Interventions (WP, Sept. 2) brings to mind
Orwell's famous observations on the "indifference to reality" of the
nationalist, who "not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed
by his own side, but has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing
about them."
...

dress in a manner that make them virtually indistinguishable from U.S. troops...Why is Blackwater trying to get U.S. troops shot at?

State Dept. Tallies 56 Shootings Involving Blackwater on Diplomatic Guard Duty

The State Department said Thursday that Blackwater USA security personnel had been involved in 56 shootings while guarding American diplomats in Iraq so far this year. It was the first time the Bush administration had made such data public.

Blackwater, a large, privately held paramilitary contractor based in North Carolina, provided security to diplomats on 1,873 convoy runs in Iraq so far this year, and its personnel fired weapons 56 times, according to a written statement by Deputy Secretary of State John D. Negroponte.

The State Department did not release comparable 2007 numbers for other security companies, but the new Blackwater numbers show a far higher rate of shootings per convoy mission than were experienced in 2006 by one of the company’s primary competitors, DynCorp International. DynCorp reported 10 cases in about 1,500 convoy runs last year.

The New York Times reported Thursday that Blackwater’s rate of shootings was at least twice as high as the rates for other companies providing similar services to the State Department in Iraq.

he fancies himself a funny man

"you're the unfunniest troll alive"

(lol)

YOU'RE THE FUNNIEST TROLL ALIVE

you're really funny

(funny-face)

Krugman: 'Useless and dangerous' mercenaries run amok in Iraq Nick Juliano
Published: Friday September 28, 2007

The use of private security contractors to supplement the US military's efforts to stabilize Iraq amounts to an inappropriate reliance on "mercenaries" that furthers the interpretation that President Bush "systematically ignores everything we've learned over the past few centuries about how to make a modern government work," columnist Paul Krugman writes.

"Mercenaries, whom Machiavelli described as 'useless and dangerous' more than four centuries ago," have a larger role in occupying Iraq than during any other US military campaign, the New York Times columnist writes Friday.

Mercenaries "are disunited, ambitious and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies," Machiavelli writes in his treatise, The Prince. "They have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy."

Krugman's assessment comes as Blackwater USA, the largest security firm operating in Iraq, faces increased scrutiny over its role in a Sept. 16 shooting that left at least eight Iraqis dead. (Estimates of the attack's Iraqi death toll range as high as 20.)

"As far as I can tell, America has never fought a war in which mercenaries made up a large part of the armed force," Krugman writes, citing a Brookings Institution report that private contractors have "suffered more losses in Iraq" that all coalition nations combined. "And, yes, the so-called private security contractors are mercenaries. They're heavily armed. They carry out military missions, but ... they don't seem to be accountable to Iraqi or U.S. law."

The incident this month was at least the 56th shooting involving Blackwater contractors this year in 1,873 convoy runs providing security to diplomats in Baghdad, according to State Department data reported by the Times. The rate of shootings is nearly five times higher than Blackwater's nearest competitor, DynCorp International, which in 2006 was involved in 10 shootings during 1,500 convoy runs. (State did not release comparable numbers for this year, the Times reported.)

Initial government reports detailing the Sept. 16 shooting portray a chaotic scene where Blackwater guards encountered the aftermath of a car bomb, a shootout in a crowded traffic circle and an armed standoff between guards and Iraqi security forces, the Washington Post reports.

http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Mercenaries_in_Iraq_facing_increased_scru...

Global War on Terror!

come on buddy

log-in & post as "war-dog"

(oops)

sam banned his ass

(lol)

FIGHT IT! WAR-DOG!

FIGHT IT!

you'll need to visit our resisdent free speech scholar...

professor gare

(of no fixed abode)

Turkey, Iraq sign terrorism deal amid border row By Evren Mesci
1 hour, 47 minutes ago

ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkey and Iraq signed an anti-terrorism deal on Friday targeting Kurdish rebels based in northern Iraq, but failed to agree on a plan that would have let Turkish troops chase militants across their shared border.

Ankara claims the right under international law to send its troops across the mountainous frontier in "hot pursuit" of guerrillas of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), but Iraqi Kurds opposed any concession by Baghdad on this issue.

"We could not reach agreement on the article concerning improvement of border security cooperation. Our negotiations on this issue will continue," Turkish Interior Minister Besir Atalay said after the signing ceremony.

An estimated 3,000 PKK guerrillas use northern Iraq as a springboard from which to attack security and civilian targets inside Turkish territory.

Under the accord, the two countries pledged to take all necessary measures, including financial and intelligence, to combat the PKK and other militant groups. They will hold six-monthly meetings to coordinate their work.

Turkey blames the PKK for the deaths of more than 30,000 people since the group began its armed struggle in 1984 for an ethnic homeland in the mainly Kurdish southeast of the country.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070928/ts_nm/turkey_iraq_dc;_ylt=ApG.3jKiOD...

That might not be exactly true. It might be that when they set up this new blog,

one of US had the foresight to set up an account and grab War Dog's nic before

he could do it. Maybe Sunny Jim did it! Maybe even I did it. Whoever did it was

on his toes that day. Shut out our biggest shit disturber with the click of a

mouse.

mp3

The album is going to be streamed on his website tonight at 6pm (not sure of the time zone)

Wolfgang’s Big Night Out Tracklist
01.) Take The 5th (An Adaptation Of Beethoven's "Symphony No. 5")
02.) One More Night With You (An Adaptation Of Grieg's "Hall Of The Mountain King")
03.) Wolfgang's Big Night Out (An Adaptation Of Mozart's "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik")
04.) Honey Man (An Adaptation Of Rimsky-Korsakov's "Flight Of The Bumblebee")
05.) Yes We Can Can (An Adaptation Of Offenbach's "The Can Can")
06.) Swingin' Willie (An Adaptation Of Rossini's "William Tell Overture")
07.) Sabre Dance (Khachaturian)
08.) For Lisa (An Adaptation Of Beethoven's "Fur Elise")
09.) Here Comes The Broad (An Adaptation Of Wagner's "Lohengrin" And Mendelssohn's "A Midsummer Night's Dream")
10.) 1812 Overdrive (An Adaptation Of Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overture")
11.) Some River In Europe (An Adaptation Of Strauss' "Blue Danube")
12.) Take A Break Guys (An Adaptation Of "God Rest Ye Merrry Gentlemen")

Candidates claimed fear of a hostile audience, but it likely had to do with not upsetting GOP's large bigot vote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Arizona Sen. John McCain and former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson were represented by empty podiums on the stage. In this tight race, candidates remember all too well how the South Carolina bigot vote destroyed his presidential hopes in 2000.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2007/09/28/gop_f...

Lazy Thompson unaware
of death penalty cases

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Republican presidential candidate Fred Thompson said Thursday he was unaware that a federal judge had ruled last week that lethal injection procedures in his home state were unconstitutional.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070928/ap_on_el_pr/thompson_lethal_injectio...

it's one of many scenarios...

that one happens to serve my purpose

FDA failing in
oversight of drug trials
A report to be released on Friday finds the U.S. Food and Drug Administration does very little to ensure the safety of patients who help test drugs in clinical trials, The New York Times reports.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070928/pl_nm/fda_safety_dc;_ylt=AlbVV5kCtsV...

serves your fantasy

Instead of the Iraq war winding down. We have Cindy and AAR winding down. MoveOn and Kos are now looked at as anti-American sites. So much time and effort down the drain.

"we got war-dog's nic"

let's get cranky to write a spiffing satire using his nic

*

(whoopee)

Submitted by Peter Dragon on Fri, 09/28/2007 - 10:30am.
...I must point out that "Earl" did win the Emmy for writing...so it really wasn't much of a secret that it is a well written sitcom.
---------
It did? Good. I am not one to tout any network sitcom. In fact, I hadn't owned a television for years until shortly before Earl came into existence, so I was a little reticent to trust my own judgement. When I saw the early promos I thought, "This television show will either be really bad or pretty good, and I'm betting on really bad."

It is the flood of references both audio and visual that I appreciate (and the absurd cultural slap downs). If I had a way to record the shows, I'd review them to find all of the stuff I missed.

yes, war-dog

it's a fucked up world

and you know the penalty for leading me astray

will be eternal ridicule

several soldiers were kidnapped in baghdad. it took over 9 hours before the communications of the kidnappers were monitored supposedly because of fisa restrictions.

my question was, i thought nsa was free to monitor anything outside the us and that fisa was all about monitoring americans and foreigners inside the us. bush, et.al. are claiming fisa restrictions put the soldiers in harms way. i'm thinking bullshit. that was the question.

i'll check it out, crank
Submitted by air-ono on Fri, 09/28/2007 - 11:02am.
-----
You will hate it.

http://prisonradio.org/MumiaWaronPoor.htm

The Latest Battle in the War Against the Poor

http://prisonradio.org/audio/mumia/2007MAJ/Sept%2007/The%20Latest%20Batt...

http://prisonradio.org/audio/mumia/2007MAJ/Sept%2007/The%20Latest%20Batt...

In South Philadelphia, renter Victoria Fernandez, told a reporter for the Philadelphia Tribune that poor Black folks were on their own. "The government don't care about us," she exclaimed. "We vote, but do we have a say? No." {Philadelphia Tribune, Fri., Sept. 14, 2007, p.8A} Her family has lived in that city's Black community for generations, but the city looks to young, white entrepreneurial types, or students, to buoy the city's taxes and fortunes.

Victoria Fernandez explains, "It ain't never been fair for poor people. We're drowning."

ok, thanks

you saved yourself much pain

: )

Where's the VidCast from Sep 25 that we were promised?